This week we are joined by Alison Proffit. Alison is the founder of Proffit Coach. They help small businesses and entrepreneurs build processes that are heart-centered and soul-aligned. Her goal is to make their businesses grow focusing on the sales aspect to avoid having the stress that sales often brings. Her background in the HR industry made her an expert in finding the best sales process for you, and business strategies that contribute to sustainable success.
Alison’s website: https://www.proffitcoach.com/
Katie Brinkley 0:02
Hi friends, I’m Katie Brinkley, and you’re listening to Rocky Mountain marketing. This podcast is all about helping Colorado based small business owners, entrepreneurs, realtors and professionals discover the strategies and systems that take their marketing to all new heights. Let’s dive into today’s episode. Welcome back to Rocky Mountain Marketing. Today I’m joined by Alison profit. Allison takes a holistic approach to helping business driven small business owners feel more heart centered, and soul aligned in all aspects of their business, but particularly focuses on improving the sales aspect of their business, so that they can grow without the stress that selling often brings. I am one of those people selling is stressful for me. So as the founder of profit coach, Allison helps clients build a business doing what they love, embrace a positive attitude towards the sales process, learn proven strategies surrounding what they have to say and how to say it, and how to apply heart centered business strategies that contribute to a sustainable success. Allison, I am so glad that we have been connected and that you are coming on the show today. Welcome.
Alison Proffit 1:14
Thank you so much. I’m excited to be here, Katie?
Katie Brinkley 1:17
Well, you know, I know that you and I have had the chance to get to know each other a little bit before I hit record here. But for our listeners, go ahead and give us a little bit of your background. Tell us what, where you grew up? And what life was like growing up? Oh, yeah, for sure.
Alison Proffit 1:31
I grew up in a small town in Pennsylvania. I feel like this is a dating question or something, right. But I, from a professional perspective, I spent my whole career working in human resources, I always knew that I wanted to help people somehow in life. And so when it was time to figure out what to do after high school, I went to college, because that’s just I didn’t know what else to do. So I went to college. And when I was picking out a career, I knew I wanted to do something in the business world. But numbers weren’t really my thing. And it’s interesting, because I felt like creativity and marketing wasn’t my thing at that point. And I knew I wanted to help people. So I went into the field of human resources. And I really loved the aspect of being able to help the people and help the business at the same time. So that heart centeredness aspect of me, if I really look at it does go way back. And as I progressed in my human resources career, I really fell more in love with the leadership development and coaching aspect of my HR roles. And I decided based on an experience that I had with somebody that was an executive coach, and she had her own coaching and consulting business, I thought, that’s what I want to be when I grow up. And that was probably in my mid 20s, that I had that exposure to that. And so as I progressed in my own career, I was, I was approaching my 36th birthday, and I was reflecting on life thinking, What am I going to what have I been doing to pursue this business dream that I have. And for some reason, the number of being four years away from turning 40 years old, somehow struck me into taking action on that dream. So I decided to go and get a professional coaching certification, I wanted to do corporate coaching. So in that world, they really want you to have a certification. So I was like, Okay, I’ll go get the piece of paper, I went through a program called the Institute for professional excellence in coaching. That’s where my coaching certification comes from. And I didn’t realize that my life was going to change. But that program and going through that deep inner personal growth and development really changed my life in a lot of ways that I wasn’t expecting. And what happened was a few weeks after I finished that program, I unexpectedly lost my HR job. And then I had a lot of different things happen in my life, between January 2017 and October 2019, navigated a lot of life, moved nine times, lost four jobs, tried to start my business four times change careers twice and went through a divorce. There was also some mental health stuff in the middle of that too, because who wouldn’t have some mental health challenges in the middle of all of that change and transition? The turning point, really, for me was the second career change that I had, which was after my divorce, I ended up getting a sales position at constant contact, which Katie, I’m sure you’re familiar with. They are a digital marketing company. They’ve been around for more than 20 years, they have a global presence. And I had never done sales before. In fact, the multiple times I tried to start my business, I didn’t make sales consistently because I didn’t really know how to do it. And they hired me because they thought that I had some transferable skills and they have a great training program, and I was amazing. In the world of sales and digital marketing for about a year, I was really successful in that role. And my job was just to talk to small business owners every day and I loved it, I was able to leverage a lot of the business acumen that I gained during my HR days in my HR roles, I talked to people who were in all levels of an organization. So I was really great at talking to somebody that was in an administrative level, all the way up into a CEO executive level. And I just really fell in love with the idea of helping businesses figure out how to connect with their audiences and their audience. Sometimes they were HR people, and they were trying to send out newsletters to their employees, or sometimes they were people like you. And I tried to connect with our audience as just a business owner. And I just really loved how I was bringing all of my background into my conversations every single day. And I really learned that sales is all about connecting. And it’s really all about having conversations that are deep and meaningful. So I love Constant Contact to start a small business consulting company that fell apart really quickly, there was an issue with my business partner. And then in October 2019, I started profit coach, and I was actually born with the last name profit, it’s felt like making money. But with two F’s, I like to say more is better. And initially, I was starting off doing just marketing strategy, consulting, and very quickly pivoted in the direction of focusing in on helping small business owners learn how to sell because I was finding that people were putting a lot of attention on marketing, but they weren’t actually feeling really confident and clear on how to sell their products and services. And I was really skilled at helping people not only learn the how, and the How is a big piece of that is what I learned at constant contact, but then also helping us through any mindset things that are in the way, which really, that comes from my coaching background. So that was like a long story to give you a little overview of my background, but I’m sure we’re going to dive into some really great conversation with that as a foundation. Yeah, and
Katie Brinkley 7:08
you know, you I have heard of constant contact. And it’s a great tool. I think that one of the things that you said, that really stood out to me was you loved working with small businesses, and you want to be a coach. And, you know, it was just kind of hard to take the leap into being a business owner. So if someone is listening right now that is trying to make that decision into being a business owner, what piece of advice would you give them?
Alison Proffit 7:35
Oh, I feel like there’s multiple pieces of advice. But the biggest one is, don’t be afraid. And that can be really hard to just kind of look that in the face and say that but that there’s an acronym that I love for fear. And it’s false evidence appearing real. We have the fears that are some of them may come from a place of just seeing other people fail. And there’s fear of not having the money to support us as we’re going through launching a business and things like that. I mean, I like to be very transparent with my clients, I had $200 when I started my business, I didn’t have money in savings because again, I had all of that stuff that happened in my life unexpectedly. And so I spent the money I had and I just was done working for other people, I knew that all of those other jobs that I had weren’t working out because it’s not where I’m supposed to be. So I think it’s Don’t be afraid and pay attention. Because whatever it is that your beliefs are spiritually, you know, God universe or your higher self, whatever that thing is, there are signs constantly being put in front of you. And those signs are going to get more in your face and in your face if you don’t pay attention to them. And so pay attention to those signs for me all of those different things that happened like that business with my business partner falling apart. Four weeks after we leapt into a partnership together, it fell apart and I knew I was supposed to turn around and start profit coach, I knew it there was no doubt in my mind because that was the only reason I left my job at constant contact was to go start that business with that person, she was providing safety net, and then things fell apart between us. And I knew the world was telling me the safety net is there, you might not see it, you might not know it’s there, but energetically, spiritually it’s there. So I bring a lot of spirituality into the way that I do my coaching because I think that faith is more powerful than proof and that includes like faith in ourselves, you know, and you’ve talked
Katie Brinkley 9:37
about a lot of different struggles that people might have to wanting to start a business. I know for me that mindset is something that I it’s interesting but it’s something that I work still work on on a consistent basis and one of the reasons why I’m surprised that I have to work on as much as cuz I grew up playing sports I you know, and really, there’s so much mindset that takes place in sports. I mean, now that Katie believes that you can go out there and hit the ball, you know, believe in that. But it’s not called mindset when you’re a kid growing up playing sports, but it’s something that I consistently have to work on. As a business owner, I would love for you just to talk about why mindset is important, but it might not be everything.
Alison Proffit 10:23
I love that. So why is mindset important? Why does it keep showing up? Well, the thing is, is our beliefs and our thought patterns, they’re baked into us from a really young age, and also all through our life. our beliefs are constantly they shift when we have big life experiences. For example, if somebody gets married, but then they get divorce, their belief and opinions about marriage is going to be very different. Would you agree? Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So it’s this constantly evolving thing, unless you’re living in a box and not having any experiences in your life. So your mindset is a constantly shifting thing. I love that you gave the analogy of you were you played sports, it sounds like you played team sports when you were younger. And the thing that I think is a little bit different is when we are a business owner, we have this belief that we have to have all of our all our stuff together, we have it all figured out before we put ourselves out there, because if we don’t have it all figured out, then like Who are we to be charging money for what we do. And so there’s this imposter syndrome that shows up, and it constantly shows up. Because once you start making money, once you do start having success, it just it’s a shapeshifter, right. Eventually, you might feel like, Oh, I should be hanging out with these other people who are more successful than me so that I can learn and grow and be mentored by those people. But there’s a part of you that’s going to feel like you don’t belong. belonging, this is something that I think all small business owners really struggle with. Because we may look at other people that do things similarly to us and think, well, they probably have it figured out more than I do. And what we fail to remember is that the thing that makes your business unique and different is you and all of the experiences that you bring to it. And we we often don’t know how to value those experiences, the good ones and the bad ones. And with those bad experiences are oftentimes the things that make your business unique, because you have wisdom that you would not have had if you didn’t have those challenges and hardships. So and mindset is so layered. I mean, you have relationships with your mindset to Money, money, mindset is a big thing that I tend to work on, because sales is money, right? It mean you’re talking to people about money, you can’t not have that conversation about money when you’re having a sales conversation. So if you don’t have a really solid understanding about where your mindset is about your money, it’s not just the belief, because I’ve seen some really confident people. And then when you start digging into their beliefs about money behind the curtain, there’s some stuff there still, and they’ve never worked on it. And it’s going to show up at some point. And then your second question was, Why mindsets, not the only thing mindsets really, really important, but so are skills. So having certain skills is really important. So that’s really why I like to say I’m not a pure coach, I really am a coach, consultant, and trainer. And that’s perfect, because that’s what I did when I worked in HR, I actually tried to put some of that on a shelf. Because a lot of people that are in the coaching world will say you know, you don’t you can’t give advice, you’re a coach, you’re not supposed to give advice. Everybody has the answers inside of them. But the truth is, is there are certain skills and pieces of information that are important to know in different areas. So for example, in your world, you do a lot in the Social Media Marketing World, there are certain things that are important to know, if you want to pursue social media marketing, there are certain things that a really great sales conversation ought to have in order to have a solid foundation to be able to ask for the sale. Those are skills, everybody can gain them. So I think it’s it’s shifting the belief that like you’re never going to learn the skill and then go and get
Katie Brinkley 14:20
the skill. It’s one of those things where, you know, like we were talking earlier when I was doing your introduction about how you help people with their sales processes. So for me, you know, I, when I started my business, I’ve been doing social media for a long time I started back in the days of MySpace, and obviously, nobody knew that social media was going to be the behemoth that it is today. So my start in social media and my business was all on trade. I was helping bands, get their music off of my space and onto the radio. And what I got in return was Hey, next time you come through Denver, why don’t you get me some backstage passes. So that’s how I got started. And that’s one of the hardest things for me now it’s because I’ve been doing it for so long that I forget that a lot of the knowledge that I have not everybody has until whenever I go into a meeting, doing sales is so intimidating for me. What advice would you have the people who sales is the least favorite part of their business?
Alison Proffit 15:22
Yeah, well, I kind of have a question for you, Katie, like, what is it about sales that causes you stress?
Katie Brinkley 15:29
It’s exactly what you’re saying is as a coach or as a business owner, then the imposter syndrome that comes along with it, you know, like, asking people, I mean, I have a business to run here, I need people to pay me for my services. But 100%, it is the asking of, of doing services together of giving out the prices, that makes that is a hurdle for me to do to throw out the numbers. And obviously, they’re not thrown out. My prices are very well calculated as on the industry standard. But at the same time, it still is, when you when I put out proposals, it’s a lot easier for me to do it in writing than it is on a call. But I know I need to be closing those sales calls on the call, not in an email.
Alison Proffit 16:15
Yes, thank you. First off for saying that, because sales happens in conversations, not in writing. And I know that there are people that have certain business models where it does need to be in a proposal fashion, because there’s a lot of layers, and it’s complicated and things like that. But for the most part, you can close a sale in a conversation. So it all starts with a understanding what you think sales is. So a lot of times people think sales is exchanging money for services are a product, but really sales is I like to say sales is an act of your top value. So why are you doing what you’re doing in your business, Katie, like what what value does your your the work you do in the world feed.
Katie Brinkley 17:03
So I give small business owners, real estate agents and entrepreneurs, a strategy for their social media so that they can spend more time on their business and less time as to trying to figure out what they should be posting on Instagram, okay, and I give them their time, you give them their time, and what what value
Alison Proffit 17:25
does, you’re like, for me, my top value is connection, what’s one of the top values that you have, personally, that you feel like your business fulfills for you.
Katie Brinkley 17:34
So for me, I, I’m just like you, I love working with small business owners, because as a small business owner, myself, like, there’s a lot of things to do. And if it wasn’t for people giving me the gift of their time, and sitting down with me over a cup of coffee, to share some of their wisdom, I wouldn’t have the business that I have today. So I feel so fulfilled when I can work with a small business owner, and teach them hey, this is how you can be successful on social media. This is and you can go back to running your business. You don’t have to be sitting here creating 800 tiktoks. And, you know, you know it, I know that so many people think they need to post like, three, four times a day. And it’s just telling them the best strategies that will work for them and their business so that they can go back to the parts of their business that they love the most the part that because not everyone wants to do social media all day. I do. That’s why I created a business around it. But I mean, not everyone does. And so when they learn the systems that I try to teach, they’re able to focus the rest of their, their time and efforts on the other parts of their business that they really enjoy doing.
Alison Proffit 18:42
Yeah. So what I’m really hearing is service, it sounds like service is like a really top focus for you. Yeah, so so what I would say is, when you’re thinking about going into sales conversations, just remember that for you sales is an act of service. Yes, sales is an act of service. And so by really starting from the belief, right, because that’s the belief, right? That’s a little bit of the mindset piece of it. Sales really is an act of whatever your top value is, for me it’s connection. So sales is an act of connection. For me, I’m connecting with the person I’m hearing about what impact they want to make on the world through their business. I’m listening to what their challenges are, and keeping the focus on connection throughout my conversation with them. That way when I’m in the part where I’m asking for the business, I’m focusing on I not that I need their business, but the connection was so strong, you’re almost like detached from the outcome of closing the sale and you’re more focused on for you it would be service, you’re focused on serving serving them. And so for you when you get to that part where you’re ready to ask for the sale, by focusing on and being detached from the outcome of I want to close the sale using service as the the leading indicator, right? It’s like, I know you’re really focused on you want to go and serve your real estate clients and serving your clients is really important because and you’re then trying to tie it back to their values, right? getting information about your potential clients values, and what’s important to them, like really boils down to the why, right? Like Simon Sinek, many people have seen his TED talk on the power of why, why is really important, because sales is an emotional act, right? And so getting into what is the value of that, like person that client, like, what’s the value of their company? Why do they do the work that they do and not forgetting to ask those questions? A lot of times people will go through their list of tactical questions in a sales conversation. They’ll be like, what’s your social media? You know, how many followers do you have? What do you want, your goal is to be out of social media and forgetting to ask questions that help you build the relationship with the human being. That’s a lot of times what people forget. And so making it more of a conversation as opposed to a tactical thing that you’re doing and asking a bunch of checklists, the type of questions, of course, you want to ask those questions that are important to knowing and understanding what the business piece of the conversation needs to be right? for you. It would be more about like, what are their goals was social media and all those different pieces, but that way, when you’re in the part where you’re asking for the sale, you’re able to just kind of stay focused on serving? And is this making sense? Yeah, no, I’m
Katie Brinkley 21:37
nodding over here in agreement, because I don’t want to cut you off. So keep going, keep going.
Alison Proffit 21:41
No, you’re fine. Yeah, so and then when you get to the part where you’re asking for the sale, what I like to do is before you throw any numbers out there, you talk about the value proposition, and you’re not putting dollars in there, you’re really you’re I like to say the value presentation statement is you’re talking about the need feature and benefit. So because you need this, the work that we do, and how we do it is this is the feature, and it benefits you in this way. And then you’re really kind of pausing and getting energetic buy in from them and saying, Do you see how this can be a great fit to solve the problem that you have? Yes, yes, yes or no? Right? You’re going to get their buy in before you talk about numbers. Because also in a really great discovery, you’re gonna find out like, what is this problem already cost them? What have they done to try to solve it? How much have they spent on trying to solve that problem, and you do that in a very conversational way, that’s a part of what I teach is really helping people understand how to have a really solid customer discovery, I tend to do a lot of role playing, and practicing and showing people what the sales conversation could sound like for them. And it’s really surprising to me, and I think some of that just comes from my background in HR. My job was to teach managers how to have conversations in many regards, right, in conflict oriented situations, nonetheless. And so that skill of communication, because really, that’s what it is, is we want to find the information, as much information as you can in your discovery so that once you get their energetic buy in, you’re already sure that your prices are going to work for them, you’re not waiting to figure out what have they spent on this and how much you’d like for you, your business is saving them time, right? So for you and your discovery, you would want to be finding out some information about like, how much do they charge for their services, and backing into like, how much is their time worth right, so that you can really then turn around and then say, you know, it sounds like you’ve been spending hours and hours and hours on this stuff. And that’s your if you help them back into how much is their time worth. And then when you say the number of what your services cost, it’s almost like a no brainer. And to be able to have the no brainer part of the conversation to then when they say I don’t know if that’s in my budgets like, but you’re already spending it. Maybe not play a check that you’re writing at the end of the day, but like you’re already spending it. So being able to paint that picture by the conversation and not you being the one to say it. But then being able to say, well, earlier you said you’re spending this much time and you’re not getting these other things that are more revenue generating activities done, because you’re spending the time on this other thing that is maybe also important, but isn’t in your area of expertise. Katie, the fact that you have done this since the days of MySpace, that’s amazing. You have so much foundational knowledge that they don’t have could they get it sure, but would they ever have the experience of having been around social media since the time social media has even been a thing? No. They can’t ever go backwards right? Like they’re never going to get that. So not for Getting about what your own personal and professional value is that you bring to the table. Because if you listed it out on paper and then figured out the dollar amount, you’re probably not even charging enough money for your services. I do a lot of pricing work with my clients. So we could have a conversation about that to Katie, if you wanted.
Katie Brinkley 25:18
And, you know, Allison, you’re you’re just dropping a ton of gems in this episode today. Because I think that what you said was is so true, you know, like, they say, Oh, well, I can’t afford that. I’ll just do it myself. But really, how much is your time worth? If it takes and that was something that I needed to do with my own business? You know, I know how to build websites, I know how to do email sequences and landing pages and funnels. But you know what, it’ll take me 123 days for something that could take somebody two hours, right. And for me to waste three days of my time to build a high converting landing page, that’s not worth my time. No, it is worth every single penny to pay somebody else that that is what they specialize in. And I think that as entrepreneurs and small business owners, we it’s hard to be like, I will I don’t know if I can afford that. Because then it’s coming out literally out of my pocket. But how much is your time worth?
Alison Proffit 26:20
So I love that you brought that up? Yeah, and and making sure that you’re finding that information out, not after you’ve asked for the sale, because then it feels defensive, and you don’t want to be defensive, you want to be open and curious. So gathering that information in the discovery part of your conversation is really, really important. And this is like this is the skill that I learned at constant contact was like how to structure a sales conversation. And it was great because they recorded us so they would play our calls back to us. And that’s, you know, something that I think we don’t do as small business owners, we don’t practice our sales conversations, we’re like in the sales combo, and then that’s how we’re practicing it, we’re practicing it when it matters most. And then there’s no point of feedback. Exactly. And so I think that that’s, that’s, you know, really, really powerful. And you know, talking about spending money. So this goes back to the money mindset stuff, don’t be because money is energy, right? I talk a lot about energy in my business. And money is energy. When we think about if I put money out there, money will come back to me. And trusting that right having faith that that is actually how money works. Money comes in, we pay our bills, it goes out, money comes in, we pay our bills, it goes out, we invested in ourselves, we put that money out, that money is going to come back, right there’s a return on our investments. Two weeks into my business, I hired a virtual assistant. And people get afraid about hiring virtual assistants. And they shouldn’t because they’re and I have a great resource. So if anybody is curious, you know, to like talk a little bit more about finding a great VA, my virtual assistant company that I work with, they they charge per hour, but they charge based on how much working they do. So if a task takes them five minutes, I’m not paying for the whole hour I’m paying for they did the thing that took them five minutes, it would have taken me two hours, two weeks into my business, I didn’t have the money, but I knew I wanted to start the relationship. And there were administrative tasks that I knew would be such a time stuff, and they would overwhelm me. And they would take a lot of my mental time, energy and attention that I wanted to invest my time, energy and attention on things that would really matter to my business, not how to, you know, figure out how to fill out this PDF or something or turn something into a PDF, like oh yeah, they know how to do that it would take them five minutes, literally tasks like that. They can be so draining, and take us down these rabbit holes that we don’t belong. You don’t belong in the rabbit hole. Either you belong up on the earth, like bringing your stuff into the world, as opposed to down into these deep holes that are distracting to you. Don’t be afraid of investing, or don’t like overcome your own beliefs on what it looks like to hire people to help you in your business. You don’t need to be making six figures. I mean, I again, there’s like little tasks that you might be spinning your wheels on that somebody else can do in a matter of a few minutes. Your time is valuable.
Katie Brinkley 29:27
Well Allison, this has been such a great conversation before we finish up today’s episode. Is there anything that I didn’t ask you about that you think is important to share?
Alison Proffit 29:37
Yeah, I mean, I think like Don’t you know, sound so cliche, but like don’t give up keep trying things and pay attention to how you feel with the things that you try. So for me like social media, it’s not I don’t get excited about it. And I’ve always been that way. So I tried out social media. I did it very focused for six months, and then I decided to take a break from it. I stepped away permit for the last six months of this year. And guess what, I didn’t die, my business didn’t go out of business, I’m okay. And now I’m kind of in a place where I’m like, Oh wait, I have six months of content from 2020. I can repurpose all that, let me look into how I might be able to do that. So just remember that there are people that are out there that are going to tell you this is how you have to be successful, you have to do these things to be successful. And I like to say that there is no prescription for business success. There are so many different paths to success. I talk a lot about soulfulness in my business, you have to do your business in a way that feels really aligned with you and your soul. And when you go out there in the world, there are so many people trying to sell like follow this system, follow this formula. And just know if you feel dissonance with this, it doesn’t mean you’re not going to be successful, it just might need that that’s not your path to success, too. Don’t be afraid to feel into that and find a coach or find a consultant that you will resonate with, that has a business that you want to you know, kind of have something that’s similar, not in their own way, but somebody that’s going to give you permission to do your business the way that feels really good to you. And not try to unpack like, Oh, that’s just a mindset issue. It’s like, no, it’s not a mindset issue. I don’t really love social media. And for some people, they really love it. And they they’d like to play in that space. And so just remember that there is no, no one way to do business. And social media is really great. And I do think that it is a valuable tool. And so but if it’s distracting you right now, and you don’t have the money to hire somebody awesome, like Katie
Katie Brinkley 31:49
just put it on a shelf for
Alison Proffit 31:51
a moment. And it doesn’t mean that you’re failing, you can always come back to it. You can always make new choices. Don’t shame yourself. And don’t kind of put yourself up against measuring you against other people. Because comparison is the thief of joy. And I like to say that joy is the best business strategy.
Katie Brinkley 32:09
I love that. And with social media, man, it can be so hard has all we’re seeing are everyone else’s highlight reels. We don’t see their bloopers. So absolutely love that. Thank you, Alison, so much for coming on the show today. Where can we find out more about you and your business online? Yes,
Alison Proffit 32:27
it’s so funny because I’m going to give you my social media handles. Because that is like really the best place for people to get in touch with me. But send me an email Allison at profit coach calm. You can follow me on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn at profit coach, and that’s profit PR o f fit coach. And yeah, I mean, reach out to me. I’m also running a summit every January. It’s called the soulful entrepreneur summit. And it’s really about bringing together entrepreneurs that are looking for a community of other successful entrepreneurs that have done business their way, in a way that’s heart centered and soul aligned. And we have a mini version of that summit coming up on June 29. So not sure when this episode is being published. But those are free tickets. So we’d love to invite any of your listeners to tune into that.
Katie Brinkley 33:22
Awesome. Well, thank you again so much for coming on the show today. It was a pleasure having you.
Alison Proffit 33:27
Thanks so much, Katie.
Katie Brinkley 33:31
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Rocky Mountain marketing. As always, I’d love to hear from you. You can visit my website at www.nextstepsocialcommunications.com connect with me on LinkedIn or check me out on Instagram. Let’s keep taking your marketing to new heights.