Our guest this week is Vince Warnock. He is an award-winning business marketing strategist, author, coach, and a Star Wars fan. He was included in 2018’s Fearless 50 where emerging bold and fearless leaders were recognized. He established his first “company” at the age of 11, unknowingly, when he played on faulty computers and fixed them to sell. This allowed him to discover his interest in computers and technology.
This is the very core of any business in any industry. Once you’ve dealt with impostor syndrome, you are now able to see clear and scale up your business. It’s in clarity, knowing the simplest framework, that you can be successful. Just the same as creating landing pages. When we overcomplicate the landing page, make it too long, we lose our potential clients. We lose that chance to convert.
Tune in and learn more about Vince in this week’s episode.
Vince’s website: https://chasingtheinsights.com/
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/chasing-the-insights/id1528241477
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/66p2n7EMUmtbSFx2ua68zZ
Katie Brinkley 0:02
Hi friends I’m Katie Brinkley and you’re listening to Rocky Mountain marketing. This podcast is all about helping Colorado based small business owners, entrepreneurs, realtors and professionals discover the strategies and systems that take their marketing to all new heights. Let’s dive into today’s episode. Welcome back to Rocky Mountain marketing. My guest today is Vince Warnock. Vince is a award winning business marketing strategist, coach, author and host of the chasing the insights podcast. Previously the CMO at Cigna and an ex radio announcer with over 20 years in marketing. Vince has been recognized by his peers with numerous awards, including being named the fearless 50, a program to recognize the top 50 marketers in the world who drive bold, fearless marketing and digital transformation. I had the opportunity to join Vince on his podcast and now he’s joining me on mine. And guys, I’m bringing events all the way from down under Well, I don’t know Can we say down under he is a kiwi. He is in New Zealand. Welcome, Vince. I’m so excited to have you on the show today.
Vince Warnock 1:15
Oh my goodness, Katie, I’m so excited to be here. We had way too much fun when you’re on my show. So in a chance to return the favor.
Katie Brinkley 1:22
I’m so happy that our paths crossed, like like we were talking about before I hit record here. We’ve had the opportunity to be on each other’s podcast. Now we’re speaking on the same summit’s. So it’s it’s amazing how, how small of a world It really is. But you I had so much fun on your show. And I thought the stuff that we talked about that you shared on your show will be of such value for the listeners of Rocky Mountain marketing. So again, thank you so much for joining me and I gave you a brief introduction. But I would love it if you told everyone just a little bit more about you what life was like growing up and a little bit of your backstory for us. Oh, wow.
Vince Warnock 2:01
Yeah, so a lot there. what life was like growing up for me, I won’t go into too much of my childhood because it was it was not a very good childhood at all. I grew up in poverty, I grew up in an abusive household, and for many years just lived in that fear of being at home. So school, school was my happy place. But also through that journey, I started to realize I needed to be independent, I had no parental figures that were looking out for me at all. And they were there but they were abusive, so I needed to fend for myself. So that kind of started me weirdly on my entrepreneurial journey, Katie. So I started my first company when I was 11. And didn’t even think of it as a company. I just needed money. So I had, I got my hands on these. And it’s going to really show my age for the moment, I’ve got my hands on these old computers, personal computers, they’ve called Sinclair’s Unix at once. And when I say old, I mean a long time ago, that also they’re just coming out. So they were being imported into into New Zealand. And these were faulty units. So the company that imported them, did them as an insurance write off and then throw them out. And I managed to get my hands on them. And I’m like, okay, I can fix these. So at age 11, I pulled them apart, fix them, managed to get two out of the three units working and then sold those two families, friends of mines, families that gave me enough money to buy a Commodore 64, which was the holy grail for me like that is what I wanted them to just come out. And I was like, I want this computer. So I got the Commodore 64. And then I realized that all of the software and all of the games for Commodore 64 were on cassette tape. And I’m like, Hello, this is just ferrite base like you can totally copy these. Now, to clarify, I had no moral compass, I had no one guiding me at all, I was age 11. So I can’t be held accountable for the fact that I didn’t know it was illegal. So it was my first business was parting video games in software as at age 11 and made considerable money from that as well, which was really interesting and that kind of taught me that I can create my own wealth. So from there I studied electronics computer and software engineering, but I also realized that my career kind of then morphed into being a mixture of both entrepreneurial and corporate life so I’ve been in and out of both and of course on radio as well so so it’s really crazy journey and I’ve created a number of companies and sold them off sold my largest company about seven years ago I think it was now I’m losing track of time and then joined the team at Cigna and from the became the chief marketing officer which was an like an insane job. Like it was an crazy job. It was awesome. Love the people there love the senior leadership there had really good relationship with a CEO and everything but realized I was really unfulfilled. And this I kind of got to the end of 2019 and thought, What am I doing here I published my first book, I really had this passion to write my second book, which is all about imposter syndrome and rewiring your brain. I knew it was going to help a lot of people, but I had no time. I literally had no time to do anything. I was the chief marketing officer. That means it was kind of it wasn’t even 24 seven, it’s like 48 seven, somehow you had to invent time to be able to get the stuff done. So I was feeling less this tension and this poll And then feeling really unfulfilled and feeling like I wasn’t being myself there. So no brainer end of 2019, I thought I need to have this conversation with the CEO, I need to explain to her that I need to move on, I need to focus on running my book. So did that that was awkward conversation. But she was really supportive, which is cool. But left there in end of January 2020, before COVID, which was awesome. And the goal was just to write my next book, I was like, That’s it, I’m going to focus on writing anti perfect. So I started interviewing different entrepreneurs from around the world, Canada, US, Australia, New Zealand, and then of course, the global pandemic. And at that point, everybody I was interviewing everyone I was researching with, they all say the same thing to me, which is, we’d love to help you. But right now, we’re not in the right headspace. We literally have no income coming in at all, no revenue whatsoever. But we have the same overheads. We don’t even know if we’re going to be in business in the next two months. So that was a point where I couldn’t stand back. I was like, I can’t do this. These are really awesome. People, like entrepreneurs are a special breed anyway, but these particular ones I was getting, then I can’t stand back and let them fail. So I said, Look, I’m just going to give my time I’m going to help you. I’m going to put the book on pause for a moment, and actually focus on helping you to turn around your business. And I was very fortunate that all the businesses I was dealing with, there were no casualties whatsoever. In fact, all of them came back to the original profitability even during lockdown. Except for I think there were three that ended up doubling the revenue, because they found new opportunities, which was fantastic. And one my little star peoples, they ended up tripling the revenue because they didn’t even know what they had. They thought they had this boutique little niche business in Melbourne in Australia. But in actual fact, all of Australia was asking for what they had to offer. So the moment we put them online, and we started to pivot the way that they were doing their business, the profit just rolled in. It was like, Oh my goodness, and it was the most fulfilling the most satisfying the most incredible feeling ever that I went, why the hell did I not do this before? Why did I get stuck in a corporate job as a CMO when I could have been helping all these people, all my guests It was amazing. So that kind of launched where I am now Katie so I kind of accidentally found myself a marketing coach as in found myself being a marketing coach, and then kind of launch it from there now have lots of group program, we launched the podcast, which, as you know, Katie, the podcast is the most fun ever. I love doing podcasting. And that made me now to where I am here with you.
Katie Brinkley 7:17
You know, Vince in it, I think that that’s why I connected with you so much because I’m an actor, the accidental entrepreneur as well. I never expected to be an entrepreneur by me, like looking back at my life growing up, I was 100% like, I there’s a grocery store here in Colorado named King soopers. And you only had to be 15 years old to be able to get a job there and you collect the carts. I remember being like 12 I mean, like, I just want to be 13 so I can get a job at King soopers. And then I couldn’t cuz I wasn’t old enough. So then I started my own window rescreening business where my dad he had his own window company. And so I learned how to make screens, like barrelhouse likes. And so I had my own little window, and I never like looking back. I’m like, of course, I was meant to, you know, be an entrepreneur. But no, I started in radio, too, I had the great corporate job that I absolutely loved. And then now that I’m have my own business, I really, it does bring so much joy. And I think that that is something that you and I have in common, but so many entrepreneurs have in common is not only do we love what we do, but just the help and the seeing the relief. And I don’t know, just just being able to help other people with their businesses and seeing that relief happen of not having to worry about it anymore is so rewarding for me. And I just as I said, I think that that’s why I connected with you so much. And now I want to talk a little bit about this imposter syndrome. Because I think that as entrepreneurs, it is something that is very real, especially in this digital world. It can be so hard to not compare yourself to other businesses that are like you other real estate agents that are like you other car dealerships, other social media experts that are like you, how can you help us with our imposter syndrome? And just saying the course.
Vince Warnock 9:13
Yeah, I mean, there’s so much to unpack here. I love this. Look, first of all is to know that you’re not you’re not alone. Like you said there’s something that we would say it’s really common, but it’s even more than that. If you look at the global stats, imposter syndrome like they reckon around 72 to 78. And depending on who you ask 72 to 78% of human beings have dealt with imposter syndrome at some point in their life. However, those numbers skew even higher majorly higher when you factor in being an entrepreneur, they looked at people that are most susceptible to imposter syndrome. Originally they thought it was a very female centric thing they thought there was actually women that suffer from imposter syndrome the most because of societal conditioning and things and a lot of that the patriarchy that alone women have had to battle through through most of their careers and their lives, but then they’re discovered that actually guys have just as much they do. Don’t talk about it, or they try and hide it because they think it’s weakness, which makes it worse, weirdly. And then the other people that are more susceptible to it, anyone who’s a first Jenner, and by that I mean anyone is the first in their family to start a business first in their family to go to university, first in their family to reach a certain level of education, or career or anything like that, or the first in your peer groups to launch your business and things. So and you’ll see launching a business comes up very frequently in all of these. And then the last one is anyone who deals with technology. And the main reason is because you cannot keep up with the rapid rate of change of technology, particularly anything in digital marketing, or anything in marketing in general, because everything shifts so quickly. So if you’re in any of those groups, which entrepreneurs are pretty much all of that, then you’re far more likely to have to deal with imposter syndrome. In fact, I think if you if we just look at purely the entrepreneurial stats for a moment, it’s probably around 99% of entrepreneurs deal with this, the other 1% a sociopath, so we don’t care about them.
That is very real, and you’re not alone. And that’s a very important point. Because often when we like I call it when imposter syndrome whispers or shouts in your ear, you know, like, it’ll do one of those two things. When it does that you feel very alone, you feel very isolated, you feel like nobody would understand what the hell I’m going through. But the reality is very, very different from that. Before I go into some of the kind of techniques and things I’ve learned along the way, one of the things you brought out there was comparing ourselves to other people, and comparing ourselves to other businesses. The one thing I’d like to clarify on that this is really, really important thing to get our heads around is, because we all do this, we all compare ourselves with others, we compare ourselves with other entrepreneurs with other businesses, without the appearance of your parent as well, we go through this whole thing of thinking they have everything so sorted, and I do not, but we’re not actually comparing ourselves with them. We can spearing ourselves with our perception of them. And by that, I mean we often project onto these people, this, this kind of air of perfection. But the reality is most people just about everybody is as much of a hotness as you are, as all of us are. So when we’re comparing ourselves to other people, we’re not being true to ourselves anyway, because that’s our inflated view of them. And a good example of this, Katie was talking about the fearless 50. In my bio, when I got to, when I got recognized for that award, it was an incredible experience, I got to fly to San Francisco spoke in front of 7000 people there, I got to be on stage with all of these incredible entrepreneurs. And a lot of people I look up to in the industry. And I remember sitting in and I won’t name him because I won’t embarrass him. But I remember sitting in one of the sessions with one of my heroes, there’s a guy who’s written multiple, multiple books, all of them bestsellers, I look up to pretty much everything he does, I was really hoping he was going to be a jerk actually, like seriously because I follow him on Instagram and Facebook and everywhere, I just stopped the guy. And every photo he has him sitting in, you know, first class in a plane with a glass of champagne and all this or it’s in some executive suites. And we’re unlike our man, I’m so jealous. I hope this guy’s a jerk. That way I can just hate him. But it turns out by the way, he’s incredibly nice. And I like dammit, he’s really funny. really intelligent, really nice. is, yeah, so I got to meet him over there. And I said in on his session, and it was everything I hoped it was going to be. I was like, Man, I’ve been wanting to hear this guy speak for so long. And it was amazing. And during the session, somebody asked a question it was. I know, we say there’s no such thing as dumb questions. But seriously, there are questions that way missed the mark. And this was one of those. He was just because he was talking about this whole concept of utility as a service as marketers are really important kind of concept for us to get our head around. And then somebody asked the question, what’s the next big technology we should be looking at, which is totally detracting from everything you were speaking on, though. You just see this guy standing there, and he kind of almost space pans and he went, actually he goes, I’m not gonna say that’s the wrong question. He said, but you might be focused on the wrong area. He said, If you want to know what your right to winners, you should have been in the guy from New Zealand’s session. And I was sitting there going, wait a minute, there was another New Zealand to hear what’s going on. But he was talking about me. And he goes when he was talking about, you know, experimentation and compound interest approach to marketing. That is your right to win. And then he turned around, he saw me and he was like, Oh, you’re in here. And I went bright red. And I’m like, yeah, and he goes, You and I are going to dinner. All right. Okay. I’m never going to turn down dinner and drinks with with one of my heroes. So after the session, we you know, we chatted about and then we went to dinner that night. And turns out Americans aren’t very good with whiskey as opposed to us Kiwis that drink a lot of whiskey. So the more we had dinner, the more we had that whiskey, he was starting to open up very nicely to be, but we got to the point where he just turned around, he said, Ah, that’s, I said, What? And he goes, I’m just really worried man, as What do you mean? He goes, I know my patent is gonna leave me. And we really and I’m thinking, where the hell did this come from? I said, What makes you say that and he goes, ah, she just, we’re getting more and more Dustin. I just, you know, with all the work I’ve been doing, I’ve been overworking and overdoing it. And as a result, like his spinnings out of control and financially we’re really struggling at the moment. I’m just going, hold on a minute. No, no, no, no Brian, I’m going this doesn’t comprehend. This is one of my heroes, this is an eight times bestselling author. This is somebody who is regarded across the world as one of the best. And he’s got relationship issues, financial issues, like all of us that you know, are all normal people. I’m going, I just in my head, I hit him being perfect, I wanted his life. And then I realized I don’t want his life I actually, in some areas are better off than he is. And it was this crazy revelation of going, I have projected this perfection on him. But in reality, he’s just the same as us. And I think that is a really important distinction we need to make as entrepreneurs is when we compare ourselves with other people, we’re not actually comparing ourselves with them, we’re comparing ourselves with our interpretation of them. And you have no idea what’s going on in other people’s lives. You have no idea what their challenges are, what their insecurities are, what their fears are, you have no idea at all. So so we need to stop doing that as entrepreneurs. And we need to actually start measuring ourselves not based on we were not in on who we’re not, we need to start measuring ourselves on where we’ve come from. And all the all of the wins, and all of the learnings and all of the things that we’ve had to battle through along the way. And if we do that, that’s going to help us a lot. But the other thing we need to do, and this is kind of one of my main points around imposter syndrome, is we need to actually understand what it is. And this is a really big step for us.
Katie Brinkley 16:17
You left me hanging in there. I’m ready for it.
Vince Warnock 16:22
Please continue. Okay, right, dramatic pause.
Katie Brinkley 16:26
Such a dramatic pause was like, and
Vince Warnock 16:31
I’m just I’m so conscious when I’m talking to other people that I’m one of these. I love talking, like, honestly, and I can talk and talk and talk. And then I’m like, wait a minute, this other people in this conversation, I should probably be quiet for a moment. Now. One of the things we need to understand is where imposter syndrome comes from and what it is, and this is where I’m going to be contrary to what the popular kind of opinion is. Because everybody will tell you that imposter syndrome is something we need to battle. It’s something we need to defeat. It’s something that we need to, like have tactics to deal with and all this kind of thing. I’m going to say it tell you the opposite. I will tell you that actually, imposter syndrome is not bad. It’s not bad at all. In fact, the only thing that’s bad about imposter syndrome is an imposter syndrome itself. It’s what we do with imposter syndrome. It’s the self sabotage aspect that happens as a result of feeling imposter syndrome. But when you understand what imposter syndrome actually is, you know what I mean? It’s not bad at all. imposter syndrome is just your brain’s way of protecting you of saying, hey, you’re outside of your comfort zone. It’s going Katie, you’re way outside your comfort zone. Right now, you’re an entrepreneur, you’re making this up as you go along, like and you’re going to get exposed. I’m worried about you. So I want you to come back in here in this nice little safe environment, I want you to come back here and my comfortable little arms so that you’re not exposed to risk and to damage. So your brains just trying to protect you. So all imposter syndrome is as your brain going, you’re outside of your comfort zone, get back in here, and I’m going to get you back in here by using fear. That fear of being judged that fear of being exposed, it’s fear that people will think that you don’t know what you’re doing. But the reality is two things. One, we don’t know what we’re doing. That’s what entrepreneurship is. Entrepreneurship is being so far out of our comfort zone that we’re making this up as we go along. Because you’ve never done this before, we’re pioneering. And there’s nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with making this up as you go along. Because that’s exactly what you should be doing that the other thing we need to recognize is, if we’re outside of our comfort zone, which is what our brain is telling us, if we’re outside our comfort zone, that’s exactly where we need to be. Our brain is not just trying to protect us, it’s actually leading you know, you as an entrepreneur are right where you need to be right now. Because inside the comfort zone, we don’t get breakthrough, right? When you’re outside of the comfort zone. That’s where breakthrough happens. That’s where prosperity happens. That’s where growth happens. That’s where learning happens. That’s where scaling happens. All of the things we strive for as entrepreneurs happen outside their comfort zone. So the moment that our brains start talking to us, they whisper to us, they scream at us, they get their ugly little claws into our head and go, listen, everyone’s gonna find out you’re an imposter. You don’t deserve to be here. You are not that person over there. You’re not that person over there. Who do you think you are? The moment they start screaming at you, that is your way your opportunity to go brain. I super appreciate you. Like seriously, thank you for looking out for me. Thank you for trying to keep me safe, that I don’t need you right now. I am right where I need to be. I am outside my comfort zone and that is the exact position and entrepreneurs should be in. So I’ve got this you don’t need to worry. I know it’s scary. I know we’re in territory that I haven’t been before. But that’s where I need to be and that’s where I need to go. So the moment we can start to reprogram our brain and I don’t know if you’ve heard of this concept Katie of thinking brain observing brain, but essentially we have two different brains that were metaphorically two different brains. One of them takes all of the input that we have. So for example it goes okay what’s going on now it takes in all the different senses, what am I hearing, what am I spelling, what am I seeing, all these kind of things. It takes in all this information and then the other metaphorical brain We’ll go. Now I’m going to interpret all of those signals into something else. And a good example of this is I did this a live conference one time, it was a hurry. So it was a very risky thing for me to do. Because anyone who does a lot of conference speaking knows, you really don’t want to be going out there getting audience interaction unless you’re 100% confidence because it could fall flat on its face. But I threw caution to the wind in this round and I was doing okay, I was talking about the concept of being fearless. I said, Okay, first of all, can anyone interpret what fearless is, you know, tell me what is fearlessness? And somebody put up their hand. They said, it’s being without fear. That’s a great word. Anyone else? Someone said, Oh, man without theorems, our DD will fan eyes. Someone said absence of fear. knows, like few. They didn’t answer what I was worried that answer. So turnaround, all of the most great answers, everyone, you’re all completely wrong, but great answers. And they were wrong, because the actual definition of fearlessness means it doesn’t mean without fear or absence of fear. It means that fear doesn’t have control or bondage over you. It doesn’t mean that the fear has gone away. It just means that you decide what to do with that fear. And then I did an experiment with them. I said, and what I’m going to do now is I’m going to hand pick five people randomly from the audience. And you are going to come up here individually, and you’re going to speak to the crowd. And you could hear the collective like I call it the packer effect, everyone suddenly would. And they went Nope, nope, nope. And they all started getting really anxious. And I was like, it was such a, like a tangible feeling in the room. And I said, Whoa, what just happened there? as it can anyone tell me what you felt when I said that. And we got a range of answers. Someone said they got sweaty palms, someone said, the heart started racing. Someone said their brain just went, they said, I’m out of here. Someone said their stomach started getting all like butterflies and knotted, which is you know, rising cortisone levels. Somebody else said that they got a really dry throat. And I said, Great, I said, those are all accurate kind of interpretations of what happened to you. So these are all the physiological symptoms that you found. So your brain observed that and went okay, yes, sweaty, palms, tick, heart racing, tick, dry throat, tick, you know, stomach knotted, tick, went through all of those different things. And then your other brain, then interpreted that as being you anxious, you’re scared, you’re afraid. The interesting thing is, and this where I flipped the script on them and said, Okay, can anyone tell me what it feels like when you’re excited? Like I said to you, you’re about to win $1,000? What would you feel? And we got a range of answers back from them, someone said that their heart would start racing, they were like, oh, you’re really excited the house that’s out racing something, yeah, my stomach would get all knotted and like giddy, you know, a little butterflies, somebody else said, All my palms get sweaty, my throat will get dry. And then we realize it’s the exact same physiological symptoms as what we perceived as fear. The thing is, all the same physiological symptoms for both of those two things. They’re identical. It’s just our brain gets to interpret what those two things are. And a lot of the work I do with people, when they’re going up on stage with confidence to things is actually getting them to say out loud to themselves. I’m not nervous, I’m excited. So instead of going on really anxious about this, they’re gonna change your vocabulary. I’m excited, I’m excited. And they train their brain to go, Oh, yeah, my interpretation of those physiological conditions is excitement. So based on this principle, this thinking brain observing brain, we can do the same thing with imposter syndrome. The moment you hear those voices, you hear those conversations in your head, you hear this thing screaming at you, you then get to choose how to just like you get to decide how to interpret that information. So it can be Oh, my goodness, yes, I’m outside of my comfort zone. Yes, this is a bad thing. Yes, I’m vulnerable. And then you sabotage yourself, you procrastinate or you put off things, or you don’t call people back and all those kind of self sabotage things that we do when imposter syndrome grip says, or you get to the side and go, No, it’s my brains way. It’s basically my alarm clock in the morning, it’s my brain going beep, beep, beep, beep, you’re exactly where you need to be right now. This is the exact right time for you to get out of bed. So this is how we kind of train our brain to deal with the most common thing. And then the other thing you need to do seriously, everybody just needs to talk about this more. They need to be open with each other, they need to actually talk about their journeys, because you’ll be surprised how many other people that you look up to deal with the exact same things that you do.
Katie Brinkley 24:13
You know, I think that that is, it’s so true, because I know that I’ve struggled with imposter syndrome with mindset issues. And I’ve I’ve always felt like it’s been, you know, like a handicap of like, Oh, I gotta get over this, I got to get over this. But the way you put it is, it’s so true. I can’t get over imposter syndrome I need I do need to kind of embrace it because that’s my, it is 100% out of my comfort zone building. You know, you want to talk about social media strategies and what you should post and when you should post it and how to create a cool look and graphic and a copy. That is stuff I know. But you want to talk to me about creating a landing page. Oh my goodness, or an email sequence, that is stuff that I get overwhelmed with and it’s it’s stuff that I feel like I don’t know how to do this ad, but maybe I just should give this all up and go back to the corporate world. That’s when I’m like, Okay, well, maybe I’m onto something, maybe this is where I need to take my business because it does make me so uncomfortable. And it’s like you said to it’s so true, because you, you look at other people out there. And you see what, where they’re at. And you feel like you’re not good enough. But at the same time, you and I have a mutual acquaintance. And she and I were talking and, you know, I was going on about how I was just struggling with writing this, this one simple email may have taken me all day. And I showed it to her, and she put it back out over to me in about 90 seconds. And I was like, This is what I was trying to work on. It took me three hours, you know, this, she’s like, Yeah, but you even take me three hours to make one Instagram post, because that’s how uncomfortable I am doing social media. And so it’s we all have our zones of genius. And it can be extremely hard not to do the whole comparison syndrome and the comparison game and bring out that imposter syndrome. So I absolutely loved what you shared because I think that no matter what industry you’re in, it’s there. The imposter syndrome. Is there the wondering, Is this right? Am I doing the right thing is there, I’m a big proponent of delegation. And there’s some times where maybe landing pages just aren’t my thing. And I should find somebody else to outsource this to. And knowing that, and then getting the landing page there. And now I have that landing page. And I can take my business to that next step. So I love all that Vince. And I did actually want to talk a little bit about landing pages if I’ve maybe that’s why I keep referring to that. But with being an entrepreneur, the imposter syndrome happens. And it can happen to all of us how especially in an online world after 2020. So many businesses had to pivot their brick and mortar stores into online businesses. And unfortunately, a lot of people had been putting that task on the backburner for too long. So I know that you can really help my audience with just kind of learning about what a landing page is and how that’s one how that’s different than a website and creating a landing page. Well, let’s just start with that. How is a landing page different than a website?
Vince Warnock 27:20
Oh, okay. So the easiest way to display and explain the difference is a landing page serves one purpose. And I mean, one purpose, the ultimate landing page, like in all honesty, the ultimate landing patient, I don’t recommend anyone do this is just a button in the middle that says next, or says take action. Like it is a singular purpose when you get to that page. So for example, you’ve you’ve seen a Facebook ad and it says, you know, sign up for my course, you get to that page, there’s no menu item there. It’s a landing page that specifically has information about a course. And it’s clear on the what the next steps that you need to do. Alright, so that is the difference. So landing page has one specific purpose. Whereas a website will serve multiple purposes, or websites designed to give them information about who you are, what you’re offering is contact you other offerings, you’ve got other products, you’ve got the history become, whatever it is on there, your podcasts, your books, all these kinds of things. your website’s designed for all these different purposes. But it should be insanely clear to anyone that comes to a landing page exactly what they need to do.
Katie Brinkley 28:19
So we have this landing page created, they know exactly what they need to do that has this that one button to click Next. Talk to us a little bit how you would help somebody create a landing page that is going to convert, you have somebody that said, Okay, I’m going to start a membership, or a course or I have a flower business, and I want to have a monthly membership for people to buy to have new flower show up at their door every month. How are you going to help them create a landing page that will convert
Vince Warnock 28:51
Okay, well, first thing you need to do is you need to take a step back from it for a moment. And you need to think through who your ideal customer is. I mean, there’s basic marketing. we all we all know this anyway. But the reason I say that is because when you get to a landing page, there’s certain things that have to happen. The first thing it has to happen is you need to know you’re in the right place, which means you need to know that they’re speaking directly to you. So for example, and I’ve seen this before I’ve even done this before mistakingly, we had a product and insurance product that we were doing when I was at Cigna, and we were targeting new moms because it was a product that was designed to help them transition once the baby’s born or this kind of stuff and protect themselves. So we had this offer out there for new months. And when you got to the landing page, took us a few moments to actually realize the top banner image we had on there was a husband and wife walking down the beach holding hands. There’s no baby in sight, and yet we’re targeting new mothers. So it was like Okay, so make sure that they feel like they’re exactly where they need to be. In some ways we can do that as a visual. So through the imagery, making sure it reflects who they are and reflects their culture and what they why you know what they do, but the other thing is ask questions on there. actually go you know, are you a new Mum, you know, are you You’ve just had your your first baby, does this sound like you? Have you ever felt this, so ask them questions on there that make them come to the conclusion I’m in exactly the right place. The second thing that they need to understand on the air very quickly is why they should care that they’re there. And for that, you need to get them to picture. So I can’t take it back, I’ll go on a tangent for a moment here, Katie, but I take it back to the bridge method, if anyone’s heard of this before, but essentially, the ultimate goal of marketing is move someone from point A to point B. So the ultimate goal of a landing page is to take someone from point A, I got the to the landing page to point B, which is to take action. So to do this, we have this mythical the bridge method, which is where on on the left side, or however you want to pitch to this, on the left side, there is your target market, see your target individual, they are there and there is this world around them. And in that world, there is this giant hole. And that hole is that need. That is the need that your product you’re offering, whatever you do fills. And then over on the other side, you have this vague picture of them, where their whole world no longer has that hole in it and need has been met. So what your goal of a landing page or any kind of marketing copy of that is to get them to come to the conclusion of where they are now. So you want them to come to the conclusion that they are in this world and that there is this big hole in there. You can go and tell them that you don’t want to come to someone and say, Hey, your you know, your email marketing sucks, and I can teach you how to make it better. Because immediately the defensive brain goes really well I work really hard on email marketing. So don’t tell me that. But if you were to say to them, Hey, you know, like it, just ask them questions on the landing page and say, Does this sound like you, you’re constantly putting these emails out there yet your your conversion rates aren’t going any higher, or you’re feeling the frustration of people just not engaging with your content. And you’re really worried that you know, you’re missing something, or you’re really worried that your messaging isn’t resonating with them. So you get them to come to the conclusion by asking them those questions internally, they’re thinking, yeah, that is me. Yeah, actually, I do feel that way. Yes, that is, oh, my goodness, I have this hole in my life, I have this gap, which is this email marketing, like being able to write really good copy for email. And then once you’ve gotten them to come to the conclusion of where they are now. And that’s by asking those questions, and the landing page serves that purpose. The next thing you want to do on that landing page is you want them to imagine what their future is like, without that need. So then you can, you can bring that to life in many different ways. You can use case studies, testimonials and things. But also you can say to them, did you know that just three simple steps that I’ve got, I can take you through or get you to have the confidence to be able to put this content out there and to increase your conversion rates, we can increase them by 20%, you know, start making some some claims in the systemic ism promises, starting showing how they’re going through whatever you’re offering to them, is going to produce that preferred future. And as soon as they start to imagine what their preferred future is, like, they’ve come to the conclusion of where they are now. Now, they’re imagining that future state, they imagine that that need is no longer in their life. That’s the point where they go, I don’t want to go back to that current state, I want to be in this world where that need is met. And once you’ve done that, you are literally the bridge that takes them from that point A from that need to point B, which is where that need is met. So a landing page should come You should come to the landing page from that perspective of going okay, asking them the right questions upfront by putting enough information or enough way to kind of bring to life that they are exactly where they need to be that this is the right landing page for them, because I understand them, and they’ve come to the conclusion of where they are, and then paint the picture of where you want to take them. And then the last piece on there is it needs to be really, really clear what action they need to take to get to that future state. And that’s why you remove all distractions from the In fact, there’s this temptation that and we see a lot out there, you know, with with some of that kind of funnel software that’s available, like Click Funnels and lead pages and everything. There’s this temptation to do these landing pages that are you know, if you were to print them, they’d be like 30 or 40 pages long. They’re just like an infinite scroll. In fact, wife was moaning about this yesterday, she was just looking at this program. And she was like, man, scrolling and scrolling. I’m just trying to find the damn price of the thing. And she had to scroll through pages and pages and pages and pages down the page, till she got to finally what the price was, and they went on, that’s not really what I’m interested in. So there’s this temptation that you have to overcomplicate everything. You’ve got to put all this information, but actually, the simpler and the clearer, the better. If I go to a landing page, and it goes, is this you and I go, Yes, that’s me. Is this the preferred future you want? Yes, it is. Well, this is how much and what you need to do next done, and I’ll convert,
Katie Brinkley 34:26
wow, this has been such a great conversation. We’ve talked all about optimizing landing pages, imposter syndrome. I mean, this is gone by so fast. I’m sad that our time is just about
Vince Warnock 34:38
up. We didn’t even get to Tony about whiskey and Star Wars. What’s going on? I
Katie Brinkley 34:42
know, I know. And for those of our listeners, Vince is a huge Star Wars fan. He has an entire wall full of Star Wars memorabilia behind him, as he’s recording here so well, before we wrap up, I have a couple final questions. What is war One of the best pieces of advice that you received, and how has that impacted your business or your life?
Vince Warnock 35:07
Oh my goodness, the best piece of advice I’ve ever received is don’t be really. And by that, I mean like, there’s often a temptation as entrepreneurs that you know, we try to perfect what we’re doing. We go, Okay, I’m going to build out this program, and then I’m going to go out and market it and sell it, you’ve already done it in the wrong order. Like the key thing is sell before you’ve even built something half the time. I did this on my Facebook group. It did backfire on me though, because I got sick just at the point that I launched this. But one of the things I try and teach people is actually like go out there and actually do a masterclass with people and say, Look, this is how to mine was on how to do a podcast. So I did a masterclass on podcasting top people near the end of it, I said, You know what, and I’m going to launch a step by step program where I’ll take you through everything you need to be able to put your podcast in place will actually show you how to do it. Who’s in and I got a whole pile of people say mee, mee mee mee, mee, mee, mee, mee mee, and then the idea is you sign them up from that point, and then you build out the program. And the reason you want to do this is not because you’re tricking anyone or anything like that, you’d be really upfront with them. But the reason you’re doing this is because often in that process of signing the people up, you find out what’s important to them, rather than assume that you know what people need what your clients need, your customers need, rather than assume that and build something based around that and then find actually, only 10% of that was actually valuable to them. And in actual fact, this whole pile of other things that I should should have added in there would add more value, instead of going down that path. Actually just design it with your customers. So and look, you know, you want to Yep, great. Okay, let’s jump on a call. So what are you hoping to get out of this? Well, I really want to learn how to get good vocals, okay, and you think you will vocals wasn’t something I was going to put in there. But let’s do some Vocal Coaching. Not a problem. What are you hoping to get out of this, I just want to really understand the technology Great, well, that was going to be in there anyway. So you see what I mean you start to build out whatever your offering is, whatever your product your course, your offering is based on the direct feedback from your customers. And it goes back to my other point, which is you need to be in front of your customers as often and as frequently and as consistently as you possibly can. They are your bread and butter they will tell you how to market to them. They will tell you everything you need to be able to deliver and build the best products the best offerings possible.
Katie Brinkley 37:12
Well, Vince, this has been such a great conversation I could talk to you for we probably could have like a three hour episode with between the two of us because every time you and I have the opportunity to speak I always end up walking away with my cup filled and feeling like I’m ready to take on my next task. So thank you again so much for joining me today. Where can my audience learn more about you and connect with you online?
Vince Warnock 37:37
Oh, Katie, I make it super easy. Everyone could just get a kid chasing the insights.com so chasing insights comes to him on my podcast I’m in my book. It’s got all the links to where you can find me on social media but also here’s where you can book a free strategy call with me. So one thing is I like to offer as a free no obligation strategy course you get 30 minutes, we will deep dive into any area of marketing that you’re struggling with. So yeah, chase the insights calm just and to connect with me on social I’m one of those sad people that just connect with everyone until you spam me and then I’ll block you. Or unless you’re a Nigerian prince, they’ll block you as well. Or my favorite one ever carry. Someone approached me and sent me a message and said on behalf of the Illuminati, we want to invite you in and I’m going to spam I know this is rubbish. But seriously, I’m so tempted. I ended up blocking them in a way.
Katie Brinkley 38:26
That’s actually pretty clever. That’s actually pretty clever. Well, then thank you again so much for coming on the show today. It has been a pleasure. And you know I look forward to having you on maybe again someday and speaking with you on more summits in the future. Thank you again so much.
Vince Warnock 38:42
Oh, thank you for having me. Katie, as always, it’s a pleasure. I know we’re here for your audience, but reality you and I just catching up which is so much fun.
Katie Brinkley 38:49
It is it is thanks again, Vince. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Rocky Mountain marketing. As always, I’d love to hear from you. You can visit my website at www.nextstepsocialcommunications.com connect with me on LinkedIn or check me out on Instagram. Let’s keep taking your marketing to new heights.