Joining us on today’s podcast is Jason Yormark, the founder of a social media agency based in Seattle, called Socialistics, and keynote speaker. They are keen on teaching people how to leverage their social media effectively for businesses of all sizes.
We do a deep dive into social media best practices in this episode. Lots of your buring questions on social media are answered in this episode!!
Should you be on every social media channel? How often should you post? Should you do it yourself or should you outsource?
Jason’s website: https://socialistics.com/
Katie Brinkley 0:02
Hey there. This is Katie Brinkley and you’re listening to Rocky Mountain marketing. This podcast is all about helping Colorado based small business owners, entrepreneurs and professionals discover the strategies and systems that take their marketing to all new heights. Let’s dive into today’s episode.
Welcome back to the podcast. My guest today is Jason Normark. Jason is the founder of socialist sticks, a social media agency based in Seattle, he regularly speaks at conferences and events across the country on topics related to how to leverage social media more effectively for businesses of all sizes. I’m so excited to have him on the show today. Jason, thank you so much for coming on. Absolutely. Pleasure to be here. Looking forward to chatting. Well, Jason, let’s start a little bit back to the beginning. Tell us a little bit about yourself, where you grew up and what life was like growing up, for sure.
Jason Yormark 0:53
So I’m originally from the Chicagoland area suburbs, obviously Chicago for people who aren’t from there, because nobody’s gonna know what the suburbs are. But I grew up there, I moved to Seattle, 2005 for Microsoft, and worked there for about seven or eight years marketing, search marketing, moved over to social when things started to kind of heat up around that. And ever since then, just really kind of focused on social media, managing teams at a variety of different agencies. And then ultimately, launching my own agency a couple years ago, I got on the Forbes power, social media influencers list just based on self taught stuff, kind of building a personal brand. But really, my real passion is really just helping small business owners navigate marketing more effectively. I mean, we can’t service everybody, but I certainly love to still coach or help or advise, because there’s a lot of misinformation out there. And businesses don’t have a lot to work with. And if there’s anything that I can do to help them navigate that or at least point them in the right direction, so that they make better decisions for their business, then that’s really kind of what really fulfills me. So that’s really what I love. Don’t know, if someone is listening to the episode right now that is thinking about dabbling into social media for their business and doing it the right way. There’s one thing to just post on social media and to be on social media. And there’s another thing to do it the right way, what’s the single biggest piece of advice that you’d want to give him or her? That’s a great question, I would say in most cases, business owners don’t have as much budget as it would like, and they don’t have as much time as they would like. So typically, if you’re talking about having to kind of manage it yourself, the best advice I can give is, it’s better to be great at one or a few things than average at everything. The reality is, as a business owner, you probably don’t have the time to kick butt on everything. So figure out whatever your business does, figure out the channel that is most likely to best represent your business, if you’re a clothing brand, or something that’s very visual in nature, well, then obviously Instagrams gonna be a great channel for you. If your business is more b2b, or you know, you’re doing something that maybe isn’t as sexy visually, then Facebook might be a great channel for you. So figure out what channel really makes the most sense for you, and pour everything into that be great at that, and then leverage that momentum and that you get there and then use that to fuel other channels or other efforts. And even maybe get to a point where you can hire somebody based on you know, creating some of that momentum for yourself. That is one of the biggest problems that I see a lot of small business and even large businesses make is that they try to be on every single social channel. And there’s so many of them that it ends up just becoming white noise, having a clear strategy and posting the right type of content for each channel. I mean, let’s say you do want to be on three channels that make the most sense for you. But tailoring the message for Instagram, tailoring the message for Facebook, tailoring it for LinkedIn, as opposed to just putting a generic post out there give people a reason to follow you on all the social channels. No, I agree. And again, that that makes us it’s difficult for a lot of businesses to carve out that kind of time to have custom content for each channel. So that’s why I say, you know, pick one. And just be great at that, because so many businesses just they treat their social media like a check back. So we posted something today we’re good. And then that’s it. And then it’s like, well, what is the sum of what you’re doing with your social media? Is it measurable? Is it doing anything for your business? And the answer to that is no, then the question is, well, then why you’re doing it, just because everybody else’s, I always say it’s not worth doing something unless you’re going to do it right. So better to just pick one or two things that you can manage and do really well than trying to do everything. Now when you talk about measuring and and pick picking the right channel to be on for social media. What do you tell your clients and customers? How do you tell them which channel to choose? And what you know, measurables they should be looking at? It really just depends on what they are focusing on in terms of what their product or services. So basically, vanity metrics like Facebook likes and Twitter followers and things of that nature. They play a part but ultimately, they’re not really what you want to be measuring. You want to be measuring leads and customers and sales and how your efforts on social media are impacting those sorts of things. So you know, ultimately, you want to make sure that you have systems in place that allow you to
measure that in many cases, it really depends. Is your is your product a digital product? Are you selling online? Well, then you from a technology standpoint, there are things you can do to connect those things to better understand how much of your social media is impacting, ultimately sales or customers. And even if you don’t have the technical expertise to do that, you can go on a website like fiverr.com, and hire somebody to set that up for you really inexpensively and get that right. A lot of businesses, especially small mom and pop shops have offline, right? They’re offline. So you might get a phone call or somebody comes in and you don’t know that maybe they saw some social media that influence their buying behavior, right. So you really need to make sure that you’re asking the right questions whether if it’s a service based business, and people are picking up the phone, you want to make sure that you and or your people are asking the right questions. Oh, how did you hear about us? And it’s not good enough to just say, Oh, how’d you hear about us? Somebody might say, Oh, I found you online? Well, that’s not good enough, like, Okay, was it on Facebook? Was it on Instagram, like what you so you really kind of have to dig a little bit to quantify what you’re doing. And I find a lot of businesses missed that mark, not so much the owners, because they understand Understand the importance of it. But it’s like the folks that are answering the phones, whether it’s a secretary or an admin or a salesperson that’s basically doing those things. They need to know the importance of asking those questions and having a process in place to make sure that it’s being asked the right way and documented the right way, so that you can quantify whether what you’re doing on social is actually translating into real business. And that leads us directly into my next question on ads, because there’s so many times where you might be doing a Facebook ad, for example, and it looks like it’s doing amazing, you know, you have so many people going to this certain page from the Facebook ad is going off the charts. But if that hasn’t brought anybody into the actual store, was it really a successful ad? And the best way to find out is by asking those questions, I feel like people are fine being asked, So how did you hear about me? Yeah, no, absolutely. And oftentimes, you have to be a little bit more realistic to when you’re doing ad spend, or campaigns like sometimes products are pointing click, it’s like I see it, I want it, I buy it. And then sometimes they have a little bit more of a runway, like I need to see it a couple times I’m making a decision, maybe it’s a higher priced item. So your calls to action don’t necessarily always need to be our expectation shouldn’t always be I’m running this ad, I’m expecting it to drive sales, immediately, you’d ask for email addresses. And that’s a great way to connect with people ongoing, because then you own that communication path. Right, then you can remarket to them through email newsletters and send them deals or even ask for phone numbers. And, you know, text based marketing is huge right now, because I mean, open rates on email is typically on average three to 5%. Whereas text it’s over 95%. So running ads to get potential customers contact information, you know, in exchange for a good 15% off or whatever is a great way to build a pipeline for yourself that then you can market to that doesn’t cost you money. So oftentimes having expectations around Okay, I’m gonna run an ad on social that’s gonna be designed around getting their email address or their phone number, instead of I want them to buy this thing right away. And then you can build that relationship with them. Yeah, and that that’s a great point because retargeting is a great way to one, get that cold lead and turn them into a warm lead. And then you can really choose on how you want to sell to that warm lead going forward, and now just kind of be throwing darts at the wall, hoping that it lands on a good potential customer. He also brought up a really good point too about a lot of people get caught up in the vanity metrics. And there, there’s a good reason to it. Because influencers if you have 100,000 followers, a million followers, you know, you’re going to get paid by different brands, more money, but as a business, that’s where it’s different. And having, let’s say you only have 500 likes for your business page, but those are 500. potential leads, those are 500 past clients, potential clients, they’re the right people that are following you on social media, it makes such a difference. Can you talk to us a little bit more about how finding the right followers is more important than having a ton of poor followers? Because, again, I think that a lot of people get caught up in maybe buying likes on our followers on Instagram, which is a big no, no, but it does messes with all of your metrics. Yeah, if you’re a business owner, you can’t get too caught up in vanity metrics, especially audience size, buying followers doesn’t really serve a purpose at all. I mean, you really, if you’re starting a business, or you’re running a business, and you’re serious about it, then it’s a marathon. And you can’t get too caught up in oh, I need to build up this Oh, no. I mean, you’re you’re absolutely right. It’s more about you want the right people, not just anybody, as it pertains to influencers. The work that we do around that, and this is this even extends to individual business owners or maybe exploring working with influencers is take a manual based approach like go and actually spend some time and find really quality people that are interested in what you represent whatever your products and services represent, you know, don’t think of it as a transaction. Think of it as a relationship that you can build you want to work with
influencers that have an authentic passion for what you do, or the products that you have, because then they’re gonna be more likely to have better messaging and just authentically want to do great work on your behalf on a regular basis, instead of it just being a financial transaction with them. So those are the kinds of people that you want to connect with, because that’s gonna feel authentic, and it’s going to work out well, it takes time, though, you can’t automate that, you just have to make a commitment to carve out some time on a Sunday for an hour and say, I’m gonna go on Instagram, and I’m just gonna spend some time looking for some folks, I’m going to have a little spreadsheet, I’m going to kind of put their names on there and their following and some notes and figure out some quality people and then spend a little time crafting a nice little message and reach out to me, that’s the best way to really authentically build an organic audience that doesn’t necessarily require, you know, spending money on ads all the time. And I think that that you brought up a really valid point where you said, I’m going to sit down on a Sunday, I’m going to find some potential leads. And that is something that so many businesses forget about. It’s not, you can’t just talk to somebody all the time on social media, it’s called Social Media for a reason. It’s meant to be social, you have to go out there and engage on these platforms, you have to go out and find these new leads and find the potential people that you want to work with, or brands that also align with your message and start those conversations. Because otherwise, just like I said, you’re just being that annoying guy at the party that only talks about himself the whole time. No, absolutely. I think that, you know, the best thing like I crossed off a bucket list item a few years ago, I wrote a book, it was a fiction book. And the one thing that I learned about it is and this this parlays to almost like social medias, if you really want to be successful social media, don’t treat it as I’ll get to it, when I get to it, like literally pick an hour or two per week, maybe it’s a Sunday for you. Maybe that’s a Saturday, maybe it’s a Tuesday, whatever that day is just pick a block of time every week dedicated just for that one thing and do not stray from it. That’s the only way you’re gonna be successful with it and plan out advance don’t be thinking about, Oh, what am I going to post today or tomorrow? No, we do a week out in advance, do a month out in advance, carve out an hour or two, that’s your social media block, and don’t stray from that. And that’s how you’ll set yourself up for success. Because anything else is just going to be sporadic, and you’re gonna get pulled in directions, and it’s just your your marketing becomes a light switch. And when you do that, and you’re turning, that never works, it’s the consistency, it’s the sum of doing it every day over a period of time, that’s going to lead to results. And it can be frustrating for business owners, because you’re thinking yourself, what difference does it make? If I post to social media, it’s not gonna be well, by itself, technically, that’s likely. But if you have that attitude, you’re gonna have that attitude on a lot of days. So you really just have to stick with it long term. Exactly. That’s, that’s what I tell a lot of my coaching clients is I know, it seems like oh my god, you want me to sit down and plan out a whole week or a whole month of social media of time? Are you kidding me. But once you get into that mindset, and then this kind of, okay, now I have the time for social media. Today, I’m going to go in, and I’m going to go in and engage it’s not you have to go in and be creative, create a graphic, you know, create some engaging, copy and choose the hashtags, it’s already been done. So
Katie Brinkley 13:05
don’t just a little bit about different tools that you recommend for measuring success on social media. So if you’re I mean, if you’re a small business owner, I don’t know that you need to necessarily spend a ton of money on analytics tools. I mean, inherently, depending on if you’re using something like Hootsuite, or even just Facebook’s own platform provides some good insights for you. But if you’re a little bit more advanced, and you want something that’s a little bit more robust, agency Analytics is a great platform. It’s designed for technically agencies, but I just find that it’s, it’s really, it’s pretty affordable. And it’s so easy to use and create these really cool dashboards. So that’s a great tool for using buffer, you know, your most business owners don’t need super layered in depth analytics, they just really want it, you’re just really kind of need to see some high level things in terms of like audience growth, engagement on your content. And that helps you identify what’s working and what isn’t, so that you can tweak or focus on the things that work versus the ones that don’t, you know, certainly Google Analytics is free, it’s a great tool that you inherently should probably already have. But surprisingly, a lot don’t. If you’re using something like Shopify, they have their own integrated analytics. But Google Analytics is great, because if it’s set up properly, again, if you don’t know how to go to Fiverr, somebody will set it up for you for like, 10 bucks. I mean, it’s it’s a piece of cake. But if you can set it up right the right way, and you have the right tags in place, and whatnot, you can kind of see you know, the traffic that’s going to your site that’s driven from social from Facebook, from Instagram, you can kind of get a start to get a sense of where you’re kind of getting that traction, you can see user paths and what your bounce rates are and where people are leaving your site. So it gives you a ton of information not only about surface level, what’s working, but when you actually get them to your to your site, what are they doing, what’s working, what isn’t? What tweaks do we need to make? So that’s very valuable information that most business owners don’t take the time to really look at to see what works and what doesn’t, but that’s also an area where it might make sense for you to spend some time
Jason Yormark 15:00
Money. Like if you’re the business owner, I would focus your time more on creating the content and managing your communities and identifying influencers go to a site like Fiverr, or Upwork, to find relatively affordable support for more of the technical things like setting up your analytics, or even providing, like some reporting and analysis of what they see if you’re that, that makes you uncomfortable, like, pick the things that make you uncomfortable, or you’re or take you forever to figure out, outsource that piece. But the stuff that you know, that you can handle, that’s where you can save some money by doing those things, yourself. And I think too, that if you bring up a good point, because so many small business owners feel like they need to do at all that no one understands our business like they do. And that’s where if you handle the content side, you know what the message is for your company and for your brand, focus on that. And like you said, Get the stuff that that you don’t want to deal with, outsource it to somebody that, that that’s what their specialty is. And it’s just one less thing that you have to worry about. Because there’s so many other aspects of your business that take up time. Yeah, and there’s tons of resources to do things inexpensively. I mean, whether it’s folks in the US outside of the US, there’s tons and tons and tons of talented people that will do things affordably because that’s what they do, and they’re so good at it that would take you know what would take you an hour to what might take them 10 minutes. So in your mind, it’s like this huge thing. But for them, it’s like, oh, I can turn this around quickly. So you can get a lot done really, really inexpensively. So if a small business owner is listening, and they want to know, well, how do I know what I’m posting? I’m developing this content, how do I know that this is a good post, or this is a good strategy? What measuring metrics would you tell them are good things to measure the success of their social media posts by I mean, the surface level stuff as always, obviously, we’re has been and continues to be to a certain extent, engagement, like how many people are liking or sharing or commenting. But I find that that isn’t as good as a measuring stick as it used to be because I feel like attention spans are shrinking. And people become their be their online behavior is becoming more and more consumption and less of them actually interacting with content, they’re just looking at it or reading it or whatever, and not necessarily liking it or commenting on it. So I think that inherently is behavior that is increasing. So I feel like engagement isn’t as important as it used to be. I think the biggest thing is, that goes back to that the Google analytics piece kind of seeing where referrals to your website are coming from, what specific clicks, you know, the click paths of things, and what’s driving traffic back to your website, there’s you can do I mean, other things like if you’re like, again, if you’re a service based business, and it’s more likely that people call you then you know, whatever in your in the pieces of content that you’re creating that have calls to action using call tracking, basically, so that you can ensure that what you put out is driving those specific calls. So to me, those are the most measurable, it’s really it’s it’s called tracking. And it’s you know, tracking clicks through social media and what those people are doing and how, whether they’re contacting you what their their behavior is, in terms of where you’re pointing them to, those are the things that matter, you know, how many likes something got, or how many comments or shares just doesn’t happen that often anymore, especially for smaller businesses. I mean, people are just kind of like scrolling and looking at stuff. So I don’t know that that’s as important. I think, too, that a lot of people get so caught up with the likes, like, Oh, I didn’t get enough likes. And Facebook has given business pages, the lowest spot on their algorithm. When do you think it makes sense for businesses to start promoting their business, because that’s really how you’re going to get your product in front of new eyes, you can have this great strategy. But again, if nobody likes your page, you’re only still you’re still only being shown to one to 3% of your overall Facebook page anyways. So talk to us a little bit about incorporating a Facebook ad strategy into your plan. You have to I mean, if you’re if you’re going to have a Facebook page, and you’re going to use it, you’re not going to get anywhere without having some sort of paid strategy associated with it. Because like you said, organic reach is practically nothing. You know, if you have 100 people on your page, you’re lucky if 123 see it, and even those 123 Did they actually see it? So it’s so miniscule? Look, Facebook’s in the business of making money. Why is two sides its people get upset about that as my community I built it. But there’s what’s the great saying, if you’re not paying for something that what does it say, if you’re not paying for a product, you are the product? You know, I’ve always loved that quote. And that’s basically what Facebook is, if it’s free, and it’s free to a certain extent. So whether that’s you, you know, allowing your data to be used to be marketed to or whether that means your business that builds up an audience that you then have to now pay to promote to Now that being said, you have to have a realistic mindset around this 3040 years ago, if you want to you had to put up a billboard or do a TV ad or do a radio ad you had to do things
that were much more expensive, much more prohibitive, and much less measurable. So now, you know, if you’ve got 500,000, folks on a Facebook page for your business, for $20, you can promote a post and put that in front of most of them, it’s pretty affordable. So I think it’s, we’re in a good time for businesses, like the barrier to entry to start and have a thriving business is so much lower than it used to be. So you have to just have realistic expectations, you know, you have to have at least a couple 100 bucks 500 bucks a month to put towards promoting your content, and just running some generic ads for your business to get in front of new people to grow your audience. If you’re just starting out, you’re gonna have to do that. So if you’re not prepared to do that, then you can’t afford that I always say, then you can’t afford to have a business. Like I mean, if your business can thrive without social, great, don’t do it. But if a digital strategy, and being online is a critical component to your business, but you’re not willing to invest at minimum, you know, $500, as a small business, to promote yourself, you’re not ready to start a business. And that might sound harsh, and I’m sure some people might disagree with that. But that’s just the truth based on years and years of experience, I ran an agency seven years ago targeting working with small businesses. So I know I’ve been down that road with them. And I can assure you that that’s the minimum barrier to entry to doing it somewhat Well, I think one thing too, that is so great about social media advertising is you can get so targeted, targeted for that $500 Way more than if you were to buy a billboard and just hope that maybe maybe your target audience is going to drive by it and see it and remember it. Whereas with this, you can focus in exactly on the I want the soccer mom that uses an iPhone that you know, you can get so targeted with your ads in ways that we’ve never been able to do before. So it’s great, it’s great, you can make that 500 Stretch a long way, especially if you’re a local business, you can target just your specific area specific interests. I mean, like I said, I mean, there’s never been a better time for a business to market themselves. I mean, the technology and the power that you have to get in front of such a really specific audience is unparalleled compared to what things used to be no, what do you recommend if someone’s listening right now they’re like, man, after listening to this, I don’t know if I have the time to do this. Or maybe I should just outsource it. When do you recommend somebody starts working with an agency or consultant to take over their social media, if you want somebody that really knows what they’re doing, and is going to deliver some sort of measurable results, usually, the lowest barrier to entry, I would say realistically is when you can afford about 1500 a month is when you can probably find somebody with some experience and have some wiggle room for ad buy, that pretty much gives you kind of $1,000 to pay somebody to spend 10 to 20 hours a month, and then have about $500 of ad buy. Now that’s low end, that’s that’s harder to find people like that my agent, we don’t work. I mean, ours is twice two to three times that but you know, we’re working with bigger business, it’s all relative, it doesn’t mean that smaller retainers or smaller businesses are any less important. It just means that’s the reality. And that’s what they have to work with. But typically at that, that’s kind of the minimum, I would say. And that typically involves kind of like a one person operation. They’re just kind of like an individual freelancer, not typically an agency agencies typically have overhead, they have teams, so it doesn’t typically work in that environment. So you really want to find somebody that’s kind of off on their own and doesn’t have a lot of overhead, but you know, still has some marketing chops and has some experience, you know, you want to find somebody that speaks about real results and isn’t trying to woo you with like, Oh, we’re gonna get you a bunch of Facebook likes and Twitter followers, that’s always a red flag, like anybody can do that. Like I, you know, I can go I can show 1000 of those. Like that. So you don’t want very affordable. Yes. So you don’t want to be sold on that you want the the guy or the gal that’s talking about leads? And how can we set up funnels for you and making sure that we’re tracking calls, and that we’re measuring actual new leads, and customers and sales and stuff like that. So they’re not easy to find, I’m not gonna lie, it takes a little bit of digging and accessing your network, but they’re out there. And if 1500 is usually kind of the lowest, if you’re if you’re still only comfortable with 1000 or less, and that’s still that’s in your world, you’re you’re going to have to do most of the work and you know, you’re going to be able to outsource some technical things, but that’s the reality. And I think that’s great too, because Never be afraid to outsource stuff that you’re not comfortable with as a business owner, because there is somebody out there that knows how to do it and probably will take them a 10th of the time that it would take you Yeah, what is we’re gonna shift gears and just talk about you as a business owner. We’re really quick before we finish up so what is the best piece of advice that you’ve ever received? And how has it impacted your business or your life? Oh, man, there’s, there’s things that I’ve learned. There’s things that I’ve been shared with there’s there’s one piece of that
advice that I’ve been given that has landed with me so significantly, that’s so simple. That was from the one manager that I had in my life that I actually was the best. Like, I’ve only had one good manager in my entire life, which is probably part of the reason why I wanted to do my own thing. But this guy was solid. And there’s one thing that he had said to me about fathers, this was seven, eight years ago. And he said, everything speaks. That’s what he said, everything speaks. And while that’s probably self explanatory, basically, what that really means is that everything that you do as a business owner speaks to your customers, to your audience. So how your website looks, how you talk about yourself, you how things are branded, how they look, everything that you do, that people can see, hear, feel, touch, taste impacts your business, like what how people see your business. So you really have to be strategic and smart about how you position yourself in everything that you do, you can never sway away from that. So that was that was always something that spoke to me quite a bit, not only, you know, as a professional growing up, but also in starting a business and being really methodical about everything that we do and how we do what we do. So that was something that definitely stood. And then the other one that I’ve learned, I would say is, as a business owner, the best thing that I’ve ever kind of wrap my head around again, find some peace with your highs are never as high as you think they are. And your lows are never as low as you think they are. So when things are really bad, and you’re stressed out, and you’re not sleeping, and you’re waking up at three in the morning thinking like it’s never as bad as you think. And then when you’re doing really well. And you’re on the high end, this is amazing. Like, don’t get complacent, because that can get pulled out from under you. So always be thinking about the next thing are continuing to drive and figure out other ways to grow. So to me, those are the two things that have stood out more than anything for me as a business owner. Yeah, great pieces of advice right there. And it is true. Everything does speak of especially social media, your brand, your brand colors, everything speaks volumes about you. And that’s why a lot of thought does need to go into your decision making for stuff that people will be seeing and decide whether or not they want to do business with you. So before we finish up, is there anything I didn’t ask about during today’s discussion that you think is important to share? The only thing you can think of is online currency or business currency is what it really comes down to is trust and likability. People do business with who they trust and who they like period, whether it’s a product or service. That’s the thing you should always be striving for as a business owner, whether it’s an agency, whether your service base with your product based you want to grow trust and likability with people, that’s the most powerful thing that you can do to have a successful business. And that’s everything that we do is designed around that is to kind of build that with folks, because even if even if somebody is not a customer for you today, that doesn’t mean that they won’t be tomorrow. So be helpful. Help other people be great to other people. And it’ll come back to you. They’ll come back to you in a good way. So well, Jason, this has been such a great conversation. Where can we find out more about you and your business online? Yeah, you can find us that’s the beauty of having a name like our socialistic SATCOM even if you just search for socialist sticks, you’ll find our agency site. We do a podcast as well, where we help agency owners kind of navigate what they’re doing. But you can find us there. Every social media is socialistic, facebook.com, socialists, six, Instagram, all that just type in that word, and you will find us so well. Thank you again so much for coming on the show today. Absolutely enjoyed it very much. Thank you so much. And if you’re ready to take your social media to the next level for your small business, head over to my website and check out my free video training the three biggest mistakes small businesses make with social media and how to avoid them. Discover how to make your social media marketing stand out from the crowd online.
Katie Brinkley 28:50
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Rocky Mountain marketing. As always, I’d love to hear from you. You can visit my website at www.nextstepsocialcommunications.com or connect with me on LinkedIn. Just look for Katie Brinkley. Let’s keep taking your marketing to new heights.