The Power of Podcasting with Casey Cheshire

“Everyone is competing to get your attention but no one’s competing to give them attention.”

In this week’s episode, we have Casey Cheshire. Casey is the Founder, CEO & Podcast Architect of Ringmaster Conversational Marketing. They empower business owners to explore the world of podcasting and how it can greatly benefit their business.

We’ve covered several topics in this episode such as:

1. What is the best contributor to his success?

2. How Ringmaster Conversational Marketing helps B2B start podcasts and drive growth and revenue

3. How can you tell the best podcast topic for you?

4. How does podcasting make you stand out?

5. Best advice to anyone who wants to start podcasting

6. What can you do today to make this happen?

Tune in to this week’s episode and discover the power of podcasting.

Visit Casey’s website:


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Katie Brinkley 0:02

Hi friends. I’m Katie Brinkley and you’re listening to Rocky Mountain marketing. This podcast is all about helping Colorado based small business owners, entrepreneurs, realtors and professionals discover the strategies and systems that take their marketing to all new heights. Let’s dive into today’s episode. Welcome back to Rocky Mountain Marketing. Today, my guest is Casey chesh. Shire. Casey is a marketer, a serial entrepreneur and an adventurer. He has been an EO for close to 10 years and countless relationships as a key reason for his continued success. Casey’s passion for podcasting led him to founding ringmaster conversational marketing, and ringmaster helps b2b businesses launch podcasts that drive growth and revenue. Casey, thank you so much for joining me on the show today.

Casey Cheshire 0:54

I am so happy to be here. Thank you.

Katie Brinkley 0:56

Yeah. And you know, we you and I have had the opportunity to talk before we hit record here. And I know that you’re going to share a lot of great tips for today’s listeners. And we both come from podcasting. So we both enjoy talking to each other and hearing conversations. And before we dive into what it is that ringmaster conversational marketing does. Just tell us a little bit about yourself, tell us where you grew up in what life was like growing up for you?

Casey Cheshire 1:21

Sure. So I’m a longtime marketer. And I think I started out as a technical communicator, I always liked messing around with things back in the day. And those listening remember, America Online, or the internet was limited to like 20 hours a week or something. But I always remembered having a good time, the internet, and then I always liked people. And so I thought, hey, why not, you know, find jobs in degrees and different things that could combine the two of those. And that’s what really led me to marketing.

Katie Brinkley 1:49

You know, and I think that with me, I didn’t ever expect to be in marketing. I went to school to be a sports reporter. And I landed my dream job right out of out of college, I was the sports reporter for 850 K away here in Denver. And, you know, I think that sometimes we might not realize what we’re really passionate about until we get older and kind of start navigating through the world and seeing what really draws us in. So what took you along your career journey to where you started out to what led to where you are today.

Casey Cheshire 2:21

Same I love I love the way you bring that up. Yeah, it was all about just trying different things. My resume used to have just a spread of all I’ve tried HR, PR, recruiting, sales, marketing, you know, all these different roles. And I once had a job interviewer tell me that my resume read like a circus clown. And I guess the joke’s on him because like company’s called ringmaster. Now, but But yeah, I tried a lot of different things. And I think, you know, for those listening that haven’t found that, that thing yet, you might have already found it’s the thing you won’t shut up about that either your friends, your spouses, or anyone important to you, or like, yeah, you have been talking about this again. Well, that’s usually the thing. And if you if you, if you have that kind of thing in your life, you’re blessed if you haven’t found it yet, and just keep trying things out.

Katie Brinkley 3:07

Yeah. And with that, let’s talk a little bit about what kind of drove you and I to to book this call here and bring you on to Rocky Mount marketing. Because, you know, you’re an entrepreneur, I’m an entrepreneur, but it’s the whole process of getting the right people in to buy from you like how do you find that audience to come into your sphere? How do you find them to come into your business? So you brought up something in our first call about the importance of interviewing your buyers? And I think that was a really great way of putting it when you’re trying to get your business started and trying to do business with the right people?

Casey Cheshire 3:46

Yeah, I think the big thing is we don’t really know our customers, I think we, and I’m guilty of this. So believe me, I’m first in line at the punishment table for not understanding your customers, decades in marketing, and you know, at least 10 years or more, doing marketing, automation and scaling and automating and nurturing and all these emails flying around here and there. But at one point, I had to really check myself because I think I was assuming what the biggest challenge of my customer was, I was assuming the way they like to be communicated. You know, whenever you see an ad, or maybe a Superbowl ad, and you’re like, that ad is terrible. Well, maybe it was or maybe just wasn’t for you. But that’s a reminder that maybe you’re not your own ideal customer. You probably aren’t unless you’re marketer selling to marketers. And if you are, you may still not be a fit. But I think I had fallen into the trap thinking that well, if I liked this ad, I’m sure everyone else will without ever talking to them. And I think sometimes the sales folks of the world, they’re just talking to customers constantly. And so marketing we think, well, we can just kind of hang out and not ever have a conversation. So we’re stuck with bias. We’re stuck with assumptions, you know, the whole phrase and what happens when you assume about your customer? I mean, nothing good. Come comes from that. And so, in the end, what you have is these ineffectual marketing campaigns that are taking stabs in the air, and it’s like throwing spaghetti against the wall, you have no idea. And then you’re hoping that some click metric will show you that you stumbled upon the right answer. Yeah. And you know,

Katie Brinkley 5:16

I think that that’s so true, right? Unless you’re a marketer trying to do business with other marketers, you think you know, what it is that maybe your ideal client and customer wants to buy? But I think that it’s, that’s one of the biggest problems is how do you put the right messaging out there? How do you find what your ideal client and customer will resonate with? What are some of your suggestions for people that might be saying, Yeah, you know, I feel like I’ve put together a bunch of lead magnets. I’ve thrown ads out there in the mailers, and I still have crickets.

Casey Cheshire 5:45

Yeah, if your emails aren’t working, this is why if your landing pages aren’t working, this is why if the print mail if the event invitation, the webinar invites, if you’re getting tiny click through rates, if you’re getting a terrible conversion rate, if the cost per acquisition is way too high. The reason is, you’re not talking to them you. It reminds me of one of those situations where it’s like the peanuts, where there’s a cartoon, and if the adults were talking, it was like this wire wire wire, and you couldn’t quite hear what they were saying. But that’s what it sounded like. It’s like we’re doing that to our customers with this sort of pie in the sky type talk. We’re not using their words, we’re using our so the way to stop that immediately, is we have to use their words, right? don’t invent your own vocabulary, use vocabulary that they tell you. And the only way to get them to tell you this is by asking them questions, either in person or online on a zoom call, need to have a conversation with them. A survey will not do it. It simply will not do it. And I and I realized this because survey questions. And I got one recently that was hilarious. It said something like why did you buy this product? Or what? What stood out the most? You gave me four options. No other option? No, none of the above just four options. Those four options were not the answer. There was another thing that was actually the reason why. And it’s very clear to me that the other thing was the reason why but this company is not ever going to know that right? Because they picked four and now I have to pick one of those four, which just leads into more of their bias. Well 31% chose this answer. Yeah, but they didn’t have any other options. And so we create all these little systems to try to get information when really just need to stop being shy for a second, introverted extrovert. Whatever the case, we need to have some conversations with our customers.

Katie Brinkley 7:26

I love that because one might be because I come from interviewing people. But that I think, once I stopped showing up for sales calls for a sale, and showed up for an interview, it made a world of difference because I knew exactly what the problem was. I heard their story I knew where they were struggling. And I could tailor the pitch to fit their needs. I think that as business owners, one of the biggest skills that we’re missing out on is is listening. So how do you help people? Or what is your advice for someone who is like, Okay, how do I’m not a one to one sales? Or I’m not a one to one business? How can I listen for that one too many to make sure that I am covering all my bases. How can I make sure I can direct the my messaging for all my different clients?

Casey Cheshire 8:17

Yeah, the answer is very simply, it’s a podcast. This is like, there’s no better way to have consistent conversations with your customers than a podcast. And, you know, I don’t know how many decades I’ve spent doing marketing, the idea of it just blows my mind, and I’m super excited about it has become that thing I’m gonna shut up about. Because when I think about all the hard work, everyone has to do companies large and small, we’re trying to, we’re playing several games, right? We’re playing several games with their prospects first, the first game is notice me right? Notice me and see if people notice me. And I don’t know if anyone listening is like me when you’re trying to find the ketchup in the fridge. And for some reason, it’s right in front of you, but you can’t see it, right. But that’s how our customers are. There’s all this stuff in the fridge, all trying to get their attention. We’re waving our flags, beeping horns at them, sending them socks as a part of an ABM campaign, all trying to get their attention to notice me. But then it’s not over once they noticed you the next game that we had to play as, please get on the phone with me, right, which is even harder game. So what’s crazy is all this window dressing, the idea of Account Based Marketing, all these other programs, ads here, nurture campaigns, their emails here, it all comes down to please get on the phone with me, right? So even if we do all these amazing marketing campaigns, someone in sales still has to harass the person or somehow someway lead to get them on the phone. And people don’t want to get on the phone. It says impossible game. You were competing with other people too. So now that we say notice me get on the phone with me but we’re saying to listen to them, right? All the other people trying to get your attention either competitors or just other things that want your attention. Don’t pay attention any of them but just notice me and get on the phone me right. It’s like really hard. And no wonder we spend tons money. No wonder marketing gets fired first, because we don’t justify our spend or anything. But it’s because we don’t know our customer. And I spent, I think over the course of just getting a coffee with one customer at a Starbucks one time, it completely changed my mind. And I realized, oh, there’s this one piece of thing I need to communicate in a marketing campaigns, and it’ll totally change the game for them. And for that client, it did. So all I needed were just a few minutes of their time, but nobody wants to give us time, right? So the flip is, instead of trying to take time, we give time. And one of my favorite quotes is by a really smart guy named Dan Sullivan. He says, Every one is competing to get your attention, but no one is competing to give you attention. And if you think about that, everyone is they’re doing the notice me game. Notice me notice me? It’s all about me, right? But if you stop and say, look, it isn’t about you. It was never about you. It’s about them. And you say nope, not about me. Don’t worry about me or buy my product. Let me hear about you tell me what are your challenges? What are your your latest wins, you just give people time and attention on a podcast on a conversation like this, then man, not only will they get on that call, their calendar goes from being busy until May to being like I’m free tomorrow am crate so their schedule frees up and then they’re happy to be on the phone, they’ll answer any question you have, including ones that really help you marketing out. And at the end of the whole thing. You’ll be grateful for the experience, like how else can you get that there’s no other way. It’s a different game. There’s no notice me, there’s no talk to me on the phone. It’s literally let me give you my time and attention. And then from there comes a relationship. And then it’s all uphill or downhill from there. It’s all just cruising along and you sell business and grow revenue. It’s just amazing.

Katie Brinkley 11:40

So well, in Casey, one of the things that I think a lot of business owners struggle with is Wait a second. So you’d say and I should start a podcast, I don’t even know where to start. And I think that that is one of the biggest hurdles for podcasting. And that and and the consistency, but we won’t even get into that. But it’s just getting started can seem very daunting. I know that that was what held me up from starting this podcast, it was something that was on my bucket list for years. And it wasn’t until April of 2020 when so many of us were given the gift of time that I finally just went ahead, ordered a microphone off of Amazon and just gave it a shot. And you know, we’ve got over 100 episodes now. But I think that that is one of the biggest struggles. It’s like, well, I don’t even know what I would say, I don’t know how I would even get started. And I’d love to hear your thoughts on it. But I think that, you know, you don’t need to have an hour long podcast, you only have a half hour podcast, you could have a 10 minute podcast, but I’d love to hear your thoughts on people that are saying like, well, I hear what you’re saying, Katie, I’m intrigued. I just don’t know if I’m all in yet.

Casey Cheshire 12:44

Yeah, yeah. What’s the goal? Right? This is always helpful. And I’ve always had, you know, we talked to coaching earlier, if you have a good coach, and you tell them this whole problem, tell this whole story, and they go back and they’re like, what’s the goal? What are you trying to accomplish? And you’re like, Ah, I knew you’re gonna ask that it’s probably the right question to ask, but I don’t know the answer. It’s one of those questions. You’re like, yeah, I gotta, I gotta answer that. What’s the goal here is the goal, to connect with a customer and to learn what their problems are. So you can more effectively one, solve them with your product to communicate how clearly you could do it with their words, not yours, right? To learn from them. And one of the biggest things that happens is you connect with them, and they just buy from you directly. Because why not? Now we trust each other. We’ve removed a lot of the risk here, we like each other. Let’s do business together, right? So there’s all these things.

Katie Brinkley 13:32

There’s something powerful about voice. There’s something powerful about hearing someone talk. And I think that when you are podcasting, if your video isn’t for you, even if video is for you, if you hear somebody podcasting, and you can hear the passion in their voice about a topic, you can hear the note you can tell when someone is reading something off of Google. But there’s something powerful about hearing someone’s excitement, their disappointment, their confusion happen when they’re talking. Oh, yeah.

Casey Cheshire 14:03

100% That’s so authentic, right. And I think we get back to the authenticity of just real humans and a lot of people talk about human to human marketing, irreligious people in the end, but the idea is, it doesn’t have to be some highly edited look, we’re all fans of those really cool podcasts like cereal, or, or This American Life. There’s some really edited story narrative type podcast. It doesn’t have to be like that. Literally. It can just be an interview format, where it’s just two people. Having a conversation in my favorite format is not the super edited kind either. It’s more of that just hit record, let it ride. And if I blabber on to your point, at least I’ll hopefully conveyed the passion at the same time. But the two people trying to come up with an answer together is just a fascinating thing. And when you experience that you really can’t connect.

Katie Brinkley 14:49

I had 100% agree. And I think that that’s where you know, I try to do one solo podcasts per quarter, because I love the conversation. So happen with my guest interviews, the stuff that I can learn the stuff that we can share and talk about together and kind of brainstorm, you know, live, I think that it really helps having someone that you can talk to. And if you’re let’s say you’re a real estate agent, and I think this, if you’re a real estate agent, and you don’t have a podcast, my goodness, you need to get started started. Because today, yeah, you have a arsenal of people that you can interview and talk about and think, you know, so many different discussions, you can interview, the local coffee shop, and you can interview the local florists, and then you can interview a mortgage person, I mean, the guest opportunities are endless. And I think the more you put yourself out there, the more you start talking with other people in your industry that are that can share tips share value, it’s going to help everyone it’s going to help your listeners and it’s going to really help you.

Casey Cheshire 15:51

Totally it’s a misconception to think that it won’t and or that people won’t accept people. Absolutely. There’ll be tickled pink, to be a guest to be a star on your show. And man, you nailed it with the idea of the partnerships that you can form with a podcast, not just even direct customers, but if your personal or residential realtor, yeah, you’re not necessarily interviewing every person you place with a house. But man, every cheaper mortgage broker photographer, the banker, there’s all sorts of people you can you can talk to, and it might start sending business your way and vice versa, just by giving them that attention. But I want to go back to that initial question about starting. And I said, Okay, you want to make sure we know what the goal is. But if the goal is to connect with somebody else with an ideal customer, you don’t need too much to have that get started. And a good friend of mine named Chris Kermit sews is this podcast nerd, he has this event called pod fest, which is just it’s all about podcast, I’m

Katie Brinkley 16:46

actually going to be there. Are you going to that and I will be there. I’m going to be leading Are you speaking right?

Casey Cheshire 16:51

Are you gonna speak? Yes, I am. Yeah, that’s right. Okay. So you know, Chris, and podfest, and all this. He has a book that’s brilliant and start a great start ugly. Just do just do it. It’s ugly. I know. You’ll think oh, it’s ugly. But again, it’s not about you, you’ll have time to make it pretty. You just need to be fancy enough so that your guest is still thrilled to be on it. Right? You need to clean up the office a little bit. Make sure that they’re happy to be on the podcast, but just get started just hitting record on the Zoom and saying I’d love to you know, interview you this was going to turn into a podcast. Don’t hold on the particulars and then start there. First couple ones, with some favorite customers and favorite partner relationship, folks, people who will join you on a podcast, he doesn’t even exist yet. Those are your safe ones. But you know what? Soon after those three are listed. I got this amazing marketer, Adele Rivella, who wrote the book buyer personas is she joined I think episode three of mine, like I’m on that 300 Now, but she joined three and I had no business talking to her, at least in my mind. Here’s this person who’s written this world famous book. She’s like, Yeah, I’ll be on your podcast episode. I’ll be Episode Three on that thing. Amanda, she taught me live on that thing all about buyer personas and whatnot. I can’t say enough about that. But yeah, literally, you’ll have the most amazing people join you right out of the gate. You don’t even need to worry obsess about it. Yes, there’s a lot of little details. But you can figure those out over time. You might group we have a launch program. And there’s 38 steps to it. But those 30 steps are ones that we’re doing for you, as opposed to you need to do them. So yeah, there’s a lot of things. Don’t worry too much about the gear and the recording, there’s apps, you can do it by yourself, you can work with a group you want some kind of microphone doesn’t have to be Joe Rogan’s microphone, but it can be a pretty decent one, don’t get a Yeti, don’t get a snowball, or anything other than that will be fine. So yeah, just get started a little bit. And you’ll be surprised, even if those episodes even if you never publish them, or just the fact that you’ve had those conversations will just completely change your mind.

Katie Brinkley 18:55

Well, Casey, this has been such an awesome conversation before we start wrapping up if anyone’s listening right now. And they’re like, Alright, you’ve you’ve kind of sold me on being a better listener for my sales calls you’ve kind of sold me on, maybe he’s trying to start a podcast, maybe this is a great outlet for me to gain new business, and better have better marketing. So I’m talking directly to my ideal client customer. What is the one final piece of advice that you’d want to give to our listeners for today’s show?

Casey Cheshire 19:24

final advice. The final advice is, have a conversation with like one customer this week, have that conversation, you’ll be surprised that really the obstacle is the way and as soon as you start having those conversations, you’re gonna find it. It’s like rocket fuel. For every single marketing campaign, every single sales call you ever do, just start by starting to have a few conversations. So start having those conversations, and you’ll be amazed at how fast you grow.

Katie Brinkley 19:55

Casey, thank you again so much for coming on the show today. Where can we find out more We’re about you and your business online.

Casey Cheshire 20:02

But absolutely so ringmaster, we create design, launch b2b podcasts, for consultants, for professionals and brands. And then we produce them. And we do a lot, a lot of that. And we do all the social and ideas, we do it all for you. So you don’t have to do anything, you just show up and meet that customer and have a great conversation. We take care of all the rest, you can find And my email is If you want to send me any questions you have or want to hear more about the details, or here’s some horror stories or some happy stories, happy to chat with you. And then I’ve got a couple of podcasts. But the one that I recommend you check out it’s kind of the model that I use is the hardcore Marketing Show. And Corey, spelled like the Marine Corps. And yeah, I’ll see you on that.

Katie Brinkley 20:47

Awesome. Well, thank you again, Casey, so much for coming on the show today.

Casey Cheshire 20:51

Well, it’s my pleasure. Thank you. This is a really cool format. I love what you got here. You got great questions. Great follow up. Really, anyone listening to this already knows how to do a podcast if they’ve been listening to you for a bit, right. So listen to this podcast, this is your primer, you’ve got what it takes. You’ve heard some great podcasts and go out and do it.

Katie Brinkley 21:10

Ah, starting a podcast. Yes, it seems so incredibly daunting. But really, it is easier than ever. The hardest part is just getting started. And I know this from experience. Like I said during the interview with Casey, I was wanting to start a podcast for years. But I just didn’t know how to start. Once I started my podcast, it helped me craft my message. It helped me make new connections with other industry leaders and professionals, people that I’d seen speak on stages before other entrepreneurs in Denver that I could do business with opening doors I never thought were possible, all because of a podcast. So I 100% agree with what Casey said about starting a podcast is a great way not to just get out there and get more leads in the door. But to really craft your message to hear what what is it that your ideal client and customer is struggling with. And if you’re a realtor, I 100% agree having a podcast is a no brainer. It makes perfect sense to have a podcast of your own. And it doesn’t need to be 30 minutes like this one here like Rocky Mountain marketing is I shoot for the 20 minute mark, but you can have a podcast that’s 10 minutes long. You going in there and sharing a tip or a quick takeaway is there is no magic length on what a good podcast is. It’s all up to you as a content creator. It’s all up to you. So huge thank you to Casey for joining me on the show today. If you are on the fence, if you don’t know what the next step is, if you want to get more leads in the door if you want to craft your messaging, if you want to make sure that you’re solving your ideal client and customers problems, what better place to start than a podcast. And for those of you that are interested, as I mentioned during the show, I will be at pod fest I’m going to be leading a panel on social audio. I’ve included a discount code for all of my listeners here on Rocky Mountain marketing. If you are interested in attending pod Fest and attending one of the world’s largest podcast conferences out there, check out the show notes get 20% off of your ticket using the code AR M M and again, the link and the code are in today’s show notes. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Rocky Mountain marketing. As always, I’d love to hear from you. You can visit my website at Connect with me on LinkedIn or check me out on Instagram. Let’s keep taking your marketing to new heights.