Woman, Speak Up! with Judy Hoberman

In this week’s episode, we have Judy Hoberman. Judy is an executive coach, speaker, consultant, trainer, and best-selling author of Selling In A Skirt and Walking on the Glass Floor. She focuses on helping women find the right tools that they need to be successful.

This conversation covered the following:

1. Her mission to help one woman a day.

2. Why delegation is important?

3. Saying NO to clients who do not necessarily align with me.

4. Bringing a team as you grow your business.

5. How do you know if you are a great listener?

6. What is Active Listening? – I take notes “in their words.”

7. Leaders are generous with their time.

8. Women need to voice out.

9. Be open to opportunities that are in front of you.

So if you’re a woman entrepreneur (or a man who wants to elevate women), tune in to this week’s episode and learn all about women in leadership and their road to success.

Visit Judy’s website: https://www.sellinginaskirt.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sellinginaskirt

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/judyhoberman/

Katie Brinkley 0:02

Hi friends. I’m Katie Brinkley and you’re listening to Rocky Mountain marketing. This podcast is all about helping Colorado based small business owners, entrepreneurs, realtors and professionals discover the strategies and systems that take their marketing to all new heights. Let’s dive into today’s episode. Welcome back to this week’s episode of Rocky Mountain Marketing. Today, my guest is Judy Hoberman. Judy is the president of Judy Hoberman and Associates, a company that is focused on empowering professional women. She’s a TEDx speaker, she is an award winning international speaker, Best Selling Author, trainer leading authority on women and leadership. The list goes on, Judy, thank you so much for joining me on Rocky Mountain marketing today.

Judy Hoberman 0:48

I am so thrilled Katie, I’ve been waiting for this day to get here. So I’m just super excited.

Katie Brinkley 0:53

I know, I feel like it’s been on the books for a while. And you and I have had the opportunity of getting to know each other on a fun little social audio app called clubhouse. And I was in a room listening to you speak. And I was like, I got to get this woman on the podcast, because she has so many great pieces of advice and tips for us specialize in women in leadership. But it really can be spread across the board for anyone that’s looking to grow their business and be a better leader.

Judy Hoberman 1:25

Absolutely. And yes, I do concentrate on women first. But I also encourage men to be part of the conversation to be advocates to be a champion. Because it’s really important, you know, as well as I do, you can’t do anything by yourself, you can’t, there’s always somebody there to help to support or to be part of. And that’s what I like to do. I like to include people and make them be the best they can possibly be. Well, and

Katie Brinkley 1:48

one of the things that you really specialize in is helping people be that better leader and leadership is a talent that I think many people don’t really, you never really get trained on it. When you’re going through school, it’s kind of something that you have to learn how to do once you’ve already had your job. So before we dive into what makes a good leader and leadership skills, give us just a little bit of a background on what it is that you do and why you decided to start your business.

Judy Hoberman 2:21

Oh, my goodness, you know, that can take forever.

Katie Brinkley 2:24

Let’s take the Cliff’s Notes version

Judy Hoberman 2:26

of getting a wise woman once told me that if you go back to when you were five or six, there’s something that happened, then that leads you to where you are now. And I know it sounds kind of weird. But if you really think about it, it really is true. Because when I was five or six, I was watching my brothers build a hot rod, you know, the go kart kind of stuff. And I wanted to be part of that. So every time I’d go and look, my father would pull me by the ponytail and say girls don’t do this. Girls don’t do this. And after three or four times, I got really close down to look at it and I got a hammer in my cheek. And all I knew was that while this hurt, I knew what he was going to say it was going to hurt more. And so he pulled me by my ponytail. He said you waste everybody’s time you’re you know, you don’t listen to that. So let’s flip Fast Forward decades later. And what do I do girls do do this, girls do do that. So it was really like eye opening when she had said that to me. But truly what I do is I do sales, training, leadership training. I’m a speaker, I’m a coach. I’m an executive coach, I do things in order to make women find the tools that they need to be successful. And like I just said, the men as well. I was in financial services for many, many years. And then I was in the corporate side of it. And once I hit the corporate side of it, I knew that the culture was not where I should have been. And so I left. And I sat myself down and I said, if I was starting all over, what would I have wanted, because my whole career was, you know, I was the only female or one of very few. And I thought if I was starting over, I would want somebody that looked like me. And I don’t mean physically look like me, but a female that would have understood some of the speed bumps and some of the hiccups that women get that most of the time men don’t understand it. And so I became that person. I just became that person. And my mission has always been to help one woman a day. And when I say that there’s always a woman that raises her hand and says, Can I be your woman? And you know, as well as I do that it’s really hard for women to ask for help. So it’s very humbling for me. So it doesn’t matter if I’m doing a training or a show or whatever. If one person shows up, I’m good. Just one because that’s my mission.

Katie Brinkley 4:27

I love it. And I find that so many entrepreneurs are Passion Driven like you like we’ve we’ve left the corporate world doing something that we were good at, but it didn’t light our fire and I love that helping women helping men help elevate women into into the roles of leadership is something that you were really driven about because I think it is something that needs attention. It needs focus, so you’re also the author of numerous books selling in a skirt and walking on the glass floor. For those people who are watching today’s episode on YouTube, they can see your many books in the background here. But I wanted to talk a little bit about what women in leadership means and why it is so important for women to have these leadership roles. So we’re gonna dive into a big, long discussion on leadership today. First question that’s coming at you is about leadership. Why do you think that so many managers, business owners, leadership is something that is not just natural, and it does require some sort of education or training on it?

Judy Hoberman 5:37

That’s 100% True, there is no real training on it. Sometimes people will tell you, Well, you should do this. And it’d be better if you did this. But there really isn’t a manual that says, here’s how you are a leader. It’s kind of like parenting, if there’s no manual for to be a parent, you kind of start when you show

Katie Brinkley 5:53

up, never forget leaving the hospital with my, my now seven year old, but I was like, I can’t believe they’re just letting us go home with this baby. And they’re expecting us.

Judy Hoberman 6:03

And then you’re in that moment, and you’re thinking, Oh, my God, like, what am I supposed to do. And so it’s really like, you know, trial and error, it’s the same thing, when you’re a leader, the difference is that you have the ability to train yourself, you have to be aware of what you’re walking into, you don’t always know what it is. But you have to be self aware, you have to know what your strengths are, what your limitations are. And you have to decide what kind of leader is going to show up every day? Are you going to lead by intimidation, because those are that’s really scary. And a lot of people, they do well under that they hate it the whole time, because somebody’s always yelling at you? Do you lead with, you know, nurturing, and love and all of that kind of stuff? That doesn’t go very far in many places, either. So it’s something in the middle, you have to decide who you are, what you want to what you want to do. I always say that a great leader has to know their people, you have to know yourself, but you have to know your people, you have to know why are people here? What is it that they want to do? And where do they want to go? And if you don’t know those answers, you’re missing like a vital piece of the puzzle. Yeah, and

Katie Brinkley 7:02

I think that one of the things with being a good leader is being a good listener. It’s not a trained skill, and be being willing to hear other people’s opinions that maybe this tactic is something we should try. And I know that when I was working in the corporate world, this is why I absolutely loved my bosses. She was an amazing listener. I would give her ideas, hey, on social media, what do you think about we try this, Hey, what do you think about maybe running ads? And she was willing to say, You know what, that is your expertise. If you think it’s a good idea, let’s give it a shot. And I do think that that’s what made her such a great leader. But it can be kind of hard, especially when it’s your business to give up some of the reins and be like, well, maybe I don’t have all the answers.

Judy Hoberman 7:49

Well, part of it is is delegation, you have to be able to delegate. And that’s very difficult for entrepreneurs very, very difficult. It’s difficult in corporate as well, but not as bad because you usually have a team, and you do move things off your table. But as an entrepreneur, when you’re giving things up, you’re giving up your baby, it’s very hard because that person doesn’t do it exactly the same way. They don’t understand the same thing. So they don’t speak the same language. But if you don’t delegate, you’re never going to grow. And I know that for a fact. I mean, there was a group that I belong to, and they had a personality coach come in, and he did this exercise with us. And then he gave you your score. And he said to me, this was like four or five years ago, he said to me, you’re awesome, and he didn’t know what I did. You should be in front of people, you’ve got a really good message, but you’re in the weeds. So you need to get some kind of help. I’m like, okay, okay. Okay. Two years later, he was back at an event. And I did it again. And he looked at me, he goes, I knew I knew you, I’m gonna give you a plus on everything. But I’m giving you an F, because you’re still in the weeds. Now, he didn’t know if I was or wasn’t, but he was really he was spot on. So I decided if one more person said to me, you are in the weeds, get out of the weeds, I was going to do something about it. And I went to my mastermind, that I was an attendee. And the first thing that almost every person said to me is you got to get out of the weeds. And so I hired a VA right after that, and she’s awesome. We had growing pains, because I could do it better. I could do it faster, you know, but it really isn’t the case. The case was that she did it differently. And she’s amazing that all I had to do is take my ego and park it and let her do her thing. And she’s incredible. So you have to be able to delegate, because that does not come easily. And once you learn how to do that, there’s going to be something else that you took that off your plate, okay, now we have room for this, and you’re going to grow, you’re going to keep growing.

Katie Brinkley 9:40

That was the secret sauce for me too. And it was something Well, one was saying no to clients that I didn’t necessarily align with, but to delegation and exactly with what you said, Well, I could do this, but was it the best use of my time? Not necessarily. And so bringing in team members and being willing to just kind of give up some of the reins, it’s hard as an entrepreneur, I get it. But that was the secret sauce to growing my business.

Judy Hoberman 10:09

Yeah. And you also have to be very focused, because like you just said, as far as not saying no to anything, you have to say no to things, you have to say no to people, you have to say no to things. Because otherwise, again, not only are you in the weeds, but you’re taking time away from something that you should be doing, and that you’re amazing, and that someone else can’t do that. And that’s a part of delegation, you have to look and see what you’re doing, and things that you only you can do, or the things you should be doing. If it’s something that you like to do, but you shouldn’t be doing it, you should give it away.

Katie Brinkley 10:40

Yep. I mean, that’s so much of this podcast, too. I mean, it was. So now mostly, all I do is find the guest book, um, have this amazing conversation. And then it’s off to the assistants, you know, and I didn’t even realize how much of my time was going into this podcast, it was up to like six hours a week. And now that I’ve delegated some of these aspects of the podcast out, I get to do the fun part. So 1,000% agree with with delegation. And being a good listener, too, you were saying? That’s one of the things that a lot of us struggle with. So if someone says, Well, I’m a great listener. But how do you know if you really are?

Judy Hoberman 11:22

Well, active listening is one of the hardest things for a person to do. Your brain just does not compute what active listening means. And active listening means when I’m talking to you, and you’re answering me, if I ask you a question, you’re answering me, I’m actually listening to what you’re saying, not thinking of the next thing that I’m going to say. And that’s really hard to do. And coming from a big sales background in financial services, you got to listen to everything you really do. And so it’s very difficult to train people how to listen. But one of the things that I found and I still do it is when I sit down with someone for the first time, and even the second or third time, I will say to them, are you okay? If I take notes? Now, no one has ever said no, but you give them the option. So then I have my notebook. And I’ll ask a question. And then I’m writing everything down that you’ve just said to me, in your words, because what you said to me, in your words, is actually what’s important. That’s active listening. And so when I’m done, and I can say to you, okay, Katie, one of the things you said was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Could you believe what happened when I walked out of the hospital? And I and now my son is seven, can you believe they just let me take the baby home? Okay, now, I just repeated what you said to me. And generally speaking, I’ll get how you really listened. Because you have to listen, if you’re taking notes, you really have to listen. Sometimes people can try to do it. But to me listening is the most important part of any piece. Because you can ask a question, and then you’ve got another one coming up. It’s coming. It’s coming. It’s coming. But you’d haven’t even heard what you just said. So if you don’t listen, the asked me the question starts a relationship, the listening some incident. That’s a great

Katie Brinkley 12:54

point. And I have a very good friend who has ADHD, and she does exactly what you said, she writes down, literally everything. And so when she’s recording a podcast, you know, I’m sitting here using my hands talking to you right now. She’s writing exactly with what the guest is saying, because she needs to be an active listener. And as these you know, she’s writing that’s when the question comes to her. So it’s, it’s really unique. And I think it’s a great point of taking notes. Because there’s so many times to where I will be on a podcast or doing a sales call or something. And I’m trying to remember all this. But if I just opened up that Notes section on my keyboard, it might help me, you know, remember exactly what someone had said, going back to something personal that you can relate with later or, or something that is important to them. And even if taking notes is not your forte handwriting typing, I think that I also record all of my calls. And obviously, we’re recording this podcast. But yeah, I record all of my calls. And then I get them transcribed, so that I can open it up later and read through something and see, like, Oh, she said this, or oh, that happened. So I can either watch it, or I can read it at a later date.

Judy Hoberman 14:12

And that’s important, because there’s also different ways that people learn. And so you might be visual, or you might be auditory, but either way, you’ve got it covered. When I take notes, like when we first met, I took notes, and I have the date. So if I have to go back and say what do I like, what did Katie say to me, I can go back by the date, but a lot of times I’m doing a proposal, and I am writing notes, because what they’re saying is important. And I want to make sure that when I’m doing a proposal, everything they said to me is included in that. Because otherwise there’s one little piece that you miss and they’re like, Yeah, you know, I don’t think I’m gonna do this. So I totally agree. It’s a wonderful way to do it. And it’s also a great way to keep yourself, keep your brain stimulated.

Katie Brinkley 14:51

Yeah. Well make sure that you’re staying engaged in the conversation. You’re not getting distracted. I mean, that’s huge to the distractions that can happen throughout conversation, you know, like I, if you have too many messages up on your computer, there’s, you know, you can get your text messages and your Facebook Messenger and slack messages and all that stuff happening during a call and you need to be paying attention. So I think being an active listener is extremely important to being a good leader. What’s another tip that you have for those who are saying, Okay, I’m going to work more on my listening skills, I’m going to delegate some of the tasks out that maybe weren’t, you know, the word, the best use of my time, what’s another tip that you can give to our listeners that might help them become a better leader.

Judy Hoberman 15:37

So our most expensive and important quality is our time, that truly is you cannot get your time back, you go to sleep, the next day, it’s a new day, you already lost whatever hours you had. And so as a great leader, you want to be generous with your time. And it doesn’t mean that every second of the day someone’s coming into your office or calling you or whatever. But when there is somebody that needs your attention, you should be available. Or if there’s somebody that you feel has potential that they don’t even know if they have potential, you should be generous with your time. A lot of times, I mentor a lot of people, and it’s usually somebody coming into the real world, or it’s somebody transitioning out of something, and they really need a mentor. And it’s really to me when you are able to give your time, they are so grateful, because not everybody does it. And I’m not saying that you should stop everything and say, Okay, now I’m going to be a mentor. That’s not what I’m saying. But if somebody says to you, Katie, you’re so good on podcast, can you show me how you do X, Y and Z? It doesn’t mean we’re getting into a long term relationship, you might just say, you know, here’s the easiest thing, I get the guests, I get these have these conversations, and then I pass it off. And let me tell you what I do when it gets passed off. Okay, now you’ve given me the whole strategy about the podcasting. And I’m like, oh, okay, now we might have another conversation we might not be you are generous enough with your time. So that is a huge quality for leaders is to be generous, and so many aren’t so many are just so busy that they have no time for you. What does that say about the relationship that you have? What does it say about your importance and your value? And so I am always very generous, I do not do 24/7 I never say I’m available 24/7? Because I’m not, I need to sleep, I need to spend time with my family. But I will say, you know, I’m available, when you need me reach out to me, if I don’t answer right away, I’m probably in a meeting or doing something, but I will get back with you, within fact, within 24 hour. So I would just simply say, Don’t worry about it, I’ll get back to you within 24 hours. And then nobody expects me to get back to them in five minutes. And so that’s just you know, there’s just different things that you can say and do. You just have to know what works for you. But being generous is huge, just huge.

Katie Brinkley 17:47

And two things I want to point out here with what you just said, Time is our most precious commodity. And I was another mistake I was making. When I was first getting started with my businesses, I was answering people back like this, you know, when I gotta answer them, I had to set up those boundaries. And you have to do that. I mean, in a digital world, and so many, whether you’re a corporate small business owner, online in person, the pandemic did, I think make it seem as though we were available 24/7. But you still need to put up those boundaries. I mean, I think about you know, before cell phones, when people left the office, they literally could not do any work until they re entered the office the next day. And that’s why a lot of people are getting burnt out. Because even though you might have left the office or shut down the laptop for the day, that doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re done working, you’re still available. And setting those boundaries is essential. So I love that you brought that up. And I also love that you brought up generosity. That’s the whole basis of this podcast, actually. Because if it wasn’t for so many business owners, giving me the gift of their time when I was starting my business, I wouldn’t be where I am today. So that is why I wanted to have this podcast so that we could all learn together. And if there’s a mistake that you made, I will be the first to raise my hand and say, Hey, I made that mistake. Oh, that one. I made it too. But I think that that’s where we all learn and if there’s a shortcut that we can take so that we don’t make that mistake, that is everything. And I know that you brought up the generosity as aspect and taking the time to be that mentor to just have a cup of coffee with someone. I know that that it’s gotten to almost be kind of hard to do that and feel free to disagree with me. But I know that there’s been a lot of people where with Zoom calls with social audio where you can it’s different to just pop into a zoom for 30 minutes and have a virtual cup of coffee. Have someone pick your brain and be like, oh well wait a second. That’s typically what I charge my coaching clients and it has a Those seem to give up a little bit of barriers for some of these conversations that you typically would have in real life, not just in a coffee shop. So do you kind of see maybe that change? And now that the world is pretty much opened up again? Do you see that things kind of going back to having those in person coffees where people are willing to just be generous with their time and their advice? Or do you think that things have kind of changed because of the pandemic?

Judy Hoberman 20:25

I think it’s a little bit about, I don’t think it’s one way or the other, I don’t think it’s ever going to be the way it was. And I don’t think it’s going to be the way it was the last two years, either. I think there’s going to be that hybrid portion of it during the pandemic. And even now, there’s a lot of people that are still not going anywhere. They’re just not, they’re not comfortable, yet, they’re not seeing people. And when you are in a business where you have to see people, the first thing I heard over the last couple of years was I can’t build relationships, I can’t see anyone, which is not true. Because how many people do you know that you’ve never met before you only know that social by social media. So that’s not true. But what I tell people is, you know, just say, you know, let’s have a 15 minute coffee break together, and just let’s jump on Zoom or me or teams or whatever. And let’s just, you know, just catch up. That’s one thing you could do. Picking brains is something that’s never going to stop, it doesn’t matter if you’re in person, it doesn’t matter if you’re on Zoom, or me or teams or anything. And people always say, Can I pick your brains? Can I just pick your brains? Can I just say, you know, I’m okay, answering a few questions I am. But when it starts to get to the point where I’m actually doing coaching, or doing a training, I mean, that’s I am a for profit company, I’m not a nonprofit. And so sometimes you have to say, you know, the first 15 minutes are on me in something like that one of my coaches, and I always have at least two coaches, one of my coaches as you can pick my brains after you pick your payment. So you can be a little bit more out there if you want. But most people are trying to find a way just to say, you know, this is great. But let me tell you about how I serve people just like you, you know, I get them into a program of blah, blah, blah, blah, but you can’t, you have to be able to say something the first few times it’s very uncomfortable. But after a while they get it. They do get it the people that don’t get it are not your people anyway, and you probably wouldn’t want to work with them. And that’s okay. You know, but that is the probably one of the trickiest things like how do you say, or you just put a time limit on it? We can get on I have like 15 minutes, let’s just jump on for 15 minutes, and then 15 minutes you go gotta go before we even happens. So yeah, there’s no real real answer for that. It’s kind of like a weird thing.

Katie Brinkley 22:38

I agree. I 100% agree. And I love that if you want to pick my brain, you got a picture payment. So I might might be stealing that one. So Judy, I have had a past guest, Michelle Ashby join me on the podcast. And she is very similar to you and kind of what you are championing for and she’s wants to get more little different. She wants to get more women in the boardroom. So more women sitting on board seats. And she said something in her episode that really reminded me a lot of what what again, you’re doing. She said, when women enter the room, when it when a woman enters the boardroom, she instantly stands out, because she’s in heels, she’s in the dress. That’s one thing that makes her look different than the other 1011 men in suits in there. So instantly, she stands out. What do you have to say about trying to get more women in these leadership roles, because I do think exactly with what she said like, we instantly can stand out in a room full of flats.

Judy Hoberman 23:41

But you have to get into the room before anybody can see that you’re wearing the heels. And I think that part of the reason why a lot of times we don’t have enough women is because they don’t speak up or you don’t have someone championing for you. Because there are positions that are coming up that people already know about. And sometimes you as the female don’t know about it, but all the men know about it, although the men over there, they all know about it. So you have to find somebody that’s going to advocate for you. And it’s somebody who’s going to open a door for you literally and figuratively, open a door for you and say, you know, there’s a position coming up, you should go for it or say to somebody higher up and say, Hey, John, you know, there’s a position coming up, you should ask, you know, you should look at Katie, but you also have to be the one that says I am looking for this. I had a client where she was I called him sometimes oblivious. Bob was standing in front of the room and you look right over her. And he said Sam or Michael, whoever, there’s a position and I’m gonna tap you on the shoulder. And she walked up to him and she said, why wasn’t I chosen? Why didn’t you even ask me? He said, what he said, I didn’t even know you were interested. There’s the problem. If you don’t ever say anything, how does somebody even know you? People are not mind reader’s. That doesn’t mean that’s always the case. Sometimes they just do choose somebody else. But you have to be able to say there’s a position coming up, or I would like to know, what do I need to do in order to get in the boardroom? Or things like that, you know, you have to be able to have something to say to somebody else. So they know, plenty of times, it’s just because nobody even knows, I didn’t know you needed help. I didn’t know you wanted to do this. So you have to be able to speak up once you get into the boardroom. Yes, stand out. Because, I mean, I was the only female in a gigantic conference room. And I didn’t know what the heck to do. Do I say something? Do I not say something? Do I raise my hand? Like, I didn’t know what to do? Do I interrupt like everybody else? I just wasn’t sure what to do until I got my sea legs. Yeah, it’s hard. But once you get in there, that’s, then it’s definitely your responsibility to make it happen.

Katie Brinkley 25:43

Well, I think that, as business owners, even female business owners, I find that a lot of times, it’s a lot easier to do business with other women. And as opposed to to other men. And I don’t know if, if that is just a sign of who my ideal client customer is. But I think that it is sometimes hard to champion for yourself and say, Hey, I would like to be considered for this. But a lot of times, if nobody knows what it is that you have to offer, what you’re interested in what you’re selling, there’s been plenty of people where I follow them on social media. And I was like, Oh, I didn’t even know that you offered that. I thought that you just had courses, or I didn’t know what the best way to work with you. You have to tell people how to work with you. You have to tell people what you want from them how to do business with you, and what your goals are. So no one else is going to speak up for you. You have to be willing to raise your hand and speak up for yourself.

Judy Hoberman 26:37

Right? What’s the same thing that when you ask people for referrals, you have to be able to tell them what they should be listening for. So Katie, if you know anybody that wants to do business with me, just let me know. Well, that doesn’t do anything, you know, as opposed to saying, Katie, I’m looking for women who do XY and Z, you know, and listen for this. Like when people say to me, what should I be listening for? I say, listen for women, because anything any conversation has to do with women, I can decipher. And if I’m not the right person, I know plenty of other people that we can, you know, share with. But you have to be able to train your people when you’re giving you know, when you’re asking for something the same way, when you talk about boundaries, and answering, you know, phone calls and texts right away, you have to retrain your people that you can’t do that. I used to do the same thing. If somebody would call me and I was in a meeting, I would take my phone, and I would put it down and I’d be looking at you and I’d be texting like I’m in a meeting. They go, Oh my God, she’s so awesome. She even you know, lets me know that she’s not going to be able to pick up the phone. Well, that was bad, because then they expect it all the time. So you have to sometimes train or retrain people.

Katie Brinkley 27:38

Yes. Oh, yes. On that, for sure. I mean, like that was, I will be the first to say this is a mistake, another mistake that I made. But I didn’t have my first laptop free vacation until a year ago. And I’ve been in business for nearly six years, I was always taking my computer with me because I never thought that I could leave even for a moment. And while it made me very available to my clients and built that loyalty. I wasn’t really ever able to escape and relax and recharge. And that is so important.

Judy Hoberman 28:11

Yeah. Because if you don’t take care of herself, who was going to but here’s the thing, what if you didn’t take your laptop for this whole six years? Would your business fallen apart? In your mind? Maybe, but it wouldn’t if everybody would be there when you came back. That’s the thing. But we don’t see that we can’t see that. If I’m not here. It’s not going to happen. When I took my first vacation when I was in corporate as taking my kids to Italy, my manager took this was Blackberry. So you know how long ago that was? He took my Blackberry. He said, You’re not getting this. So you come back. I’m like, Oh, my God, what if somebody needs you? Because no one needs you that much. And he wouldn’t let me take it. And that was our method of communication. It wasn’t you know, you had a laptop, but everybody would just get on your Blackberry. But he took it away from me. So again, he was my advocate. So you need to sometimes if you can’t do it yourself, someone else has to do for you.

Katie Brinkley 29:00

100%. And who can you be an advocate for who can you be generous to who can you be a better listener for? We touched on so many great topics today, Judy, thank you so much for joining me, what is one final tip that you’d want to give our listeners as we wrap up today’s episode, I would say look

Judy Hoberman 29:19

for opportunities because they’re right in front of you. And you may not know it’s an opportunity, but if you don’t at least be open to something new. It’s gonna pass you by and there’s so many amazing opportunities to meet people to spend time with people to learn from to teach people so just be open and just be aware,

Katie Brinkley 29:38

Judy, you what’s the best way for people to continue the conversation with you and continue maybe learning from you and working with you?

Judy Hoberman 29:47

Well, the best way probably to reach me is on LinkedIn because I’m on social media. I’m everywhere on social media, but LinkedIn is usually the best place for me and it’s under Judy Hoberman. My website is selling in a skirt so you can always find me there and my email is June. against selling in a skirt. So anywhere I and I answer my own things, nobody does it for me. Asa not giving that up.

Katie Brinkley 30:08

Well and, Judy, if people want to buy your book that you have a couple of them out, there’s a couple here in the YouTube video for the people that are watching us on YouTube selling in a skirt walking on the glass floor, where can they find these books?

Judy Hoberman 30:21

Okay, you can buy them on Amazon very easily, but then I can’t sign it for you. So want me to sign them, go to my website and order them there. If you don’t care, which is fine, then just order them from Amazon. And then if I get to see you in person at any point, I’ll sign up for you.

Katie Brinkley 30:35

Awesome. Well, thank you again so much for joining me on the show today. Thank you so much. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Rocky Mountain marketing. As always, I’d love to hear from you. You can visit my website at www.nextstepsocialcommunications.com. Connect with me on LinkedIn or check me out on Instagram. Let’s keep taking your marketing to new heights.